the DMV & body piercings

[Thistle Harlequin]

OMG..so my friend pointed out that she just got her NEW ID (in CA) and they put a flesh colored dot over her labret piercing. So she had a shit fit and called the DMV and they said it was policy to photoshop piercings because it changes your identity (not in those exact words but something along those lines) so she asked for a link to get the written policy and they couldn't give it to her..

So now she's trying to call them in Sacramento to see whats up. So I took a picture for my new ID also about three weeks ago and I noticed that they put flesh colored dots over my bridge piercing and my monroe piercing too (no wonder I was like-- there's something missing in this picture) but I didn't pay much attention to it.

So this sucks! This must be new because my Drivers Liscense from 4 years ago had my monroe piercing and my friend also had her labret piercing in her last picture ID.

The people over the phone told her that the person at the DMV that took her picture should have asked her to remove her jewelry for the pic, and she's really pissed so they are asking her to pay another $23 to take another picture, minus the jewelry, and ignore the issue.

What do you guys think?

I hate that they covered my bridge piercing, it makes me look different w/out it. I hate it. The picture doesn'tn really look like a genuine me.

[drewblood]

whats a monroe piercing?

makes no sense... THEY are the ones altering your look / identity from what reality is by photoshopping your face. dumb.

[Amelia G]

If you normally have facial piercings, then your ID should have you looking like you normally look. I can't believe this is in California. Although, I guess maybe Iowa has no need for a state DMV policy on facial piercings. I can't believe my tax dollars go to someone in Sacramento photoshopping people's driver's licenses to look less accurate.

[Raza]

I can't believe my tax dollars go to someone in Sacramento photoshopping people's driver's licenses to look less accurate.

QFL

[athenahollow]

They made my fiance take his mohawk down a few years ago when he went for his DL renewal. At that point in time, he was wearing it up nearly every day, for the better part of 2 years, so it was just natural for him to have it up.

[Morning Glory]

Remember when we all watched Fight Club and shouted along with righteous indignation: You're not your job, you're not the car you drive, you're not the contents of your wallet, you're not your khakis...

and then pretended like our so-called counter culture was immune.

You're not your fucking piercings and tattoos.

the shit you own ends up owning you, even if it's from an anarcho-primitivist co-op.

sure it's bit of a weird phenomenon, but I'm not really looking for my driver's license to make an existentialist statement. as long as it sorta looks like me enough to convince that I'm authorized to get behind the wheel, then I'm just dandy.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Hell....I live in Florida and my driver's license picture was taken in 1991 (I had a fuckin' mullet, for Jebus sakes). It looks nothing like me. Do I care? Fuck that. Who I am, right now, is what I care about...Not what I looked like in 1991. Driver's license? Please....Like they even take good pictures at the DMV?Everybody's pic looks like a fuckin' mug shot. If you get pulled over, I swear, THAT would be the last thing on the list that you'd give a shit about.

I had this one lady years ago who, when I asked for photo I.D. to open an account, she gave me a driver's license where she actually glued a "better" photo of herself over her DMV pic. I asked her, "You do know if you ever get stopped by Jonny law, he/she is gonna rip that glued photo off and see the "real" DMV pic? She responded with, "Whatever." So, I ripped off her pic. Like I could actually use a glued-on pic as I.D.? Hahaha!

I think MG is right. Though piercings and tats are cool....The real cool you is "you"...Not accessories...

[babyswitchblade]

whats a monroe piercing?

makes no sense... THEY are the ones altering your look / identity from what reality is by photoshopping your face. dumb.

It's the piercing where, more or less, the all-famous Marilyn Monroe beauty spot was. The top lip on the side.

[babyswitchblade]

Man, and I thought it was bad that my friend's pink hair was turned brown in our school photos several years ago.
When somebody goes missing or is a wanted criminal, people ask, "Did they have any distinguishing features?"

As far as I'm concerned, a piercing is a much a distinguishing feature as a beauty spot or a scar, and should not be Photoshopped out for the sake of an I.D photo. That's just ridiculous.

[DonkeyMoses]

While I agree that your I.D. isn't really an important place to make a stetement abour who you are, it is a bit insulting when a government institution decides what you should look like. Where does it end? Will they photoshop out my beard when I renew mine? It stands to reason that they want a photo that looks undeniably like you. If you have adornments that you wear all the time, that's what you look like. They don't change your facial features so much that if you have your peircing on your I.D. and not when your're pulled over or trying to get served, no one is going to say it's not you. Just another societal impingement on you're freedom of expression, albeit a tiny and fairly irrelevant one. Hell, I had a beautiful maniacal/shit eating grin for my first pic and they didn't let me use it. They had to retake it. So I gave them a simpering smile and they were ok with that. My wife's says brown hair where in the picture it's clearly blue and has been for 6 years.

I had a friend who, because he was a clown driving for a punk-circus group, glued a tiny red pom-pom to the nose of his. When he got pulled over (frequently) while the cop was looking at it with a cartoon question mark over his head, my friend would put on a clown nose. invariably the cop would laugh and let him go.
I think the distinguishing factor is that they want to know what you look like, not who you are.

[KilLAtomiK]

sounds like a big deal about nothing to me its not like they are changing something drastic like your skin color or something

[aXa]

coming soon to photo IDs near you: a spot that lists your number of visible piercings. you must get a new(full cost) ID whenever that number changes.

same thing for hair colour. i know that many of us like to change our hair colour quite frequently.

the idea here is to increase the amount of money that we, the strange and unusual ones, pay to the DMV.

hell, let's just create a new tax for being weird. care to express yourself via body art or unusual style? sure, but it will cost you.

i guess what im trying to say is that i dont like the idea of an organization such as the DMV making these kind of decisions for me. its "a slippery slope."

[Raza]

your I.D. isn't really an important place to make a stetement abour who you are

quoted for win

[Morning Glory]

it is a bit insulting when a government institution decides what you should look like.

you're just now figuring that out? you must not watch very much TV/movies/advertising/all forms of public perception. I don't mean to sound like such an asshole, but pretty much all societies for the past few thousand years have been trying to mold people into conformity to better serve the smooth flow of "progress" as dictated by those in power. things like free thinking and individual creativity, especially if it goes against the traditions and structure doesn't jive.

[Dusk]

Mybe they could just remove all readily changable features, i.e, hair beards peircings etc

[DonkeyMoses]

you're just now figuring that out? you must not watch very much TV/movies/advertising/all forms of public perception. I don't mean to sound like such an asshole, but pretty much all societies for the past few thousand years have been trying to mold people into conformity to better serve the smooth flow of "progress" as dictated by those in power. things like free thinking and individual creativity, especially if it goes against the traditions and structure doesn't jive.

No, I'm not "just now figuring that out". I've been doing this for a while. I left my home because of it. It's one of the last forms of discrimination left to be addressed. Fortunately I now find myself in a town where no one (except Texan tourists) really seems to give a shit. Being a freak in Pittsburgh is not an easy life. Especially if you're not someting obvious like "punk" or "goth" or any number of media driven subcultural catagories that people can put a finger on because they've seen it on tv. And especially if you're in your thirties. When your in your teens, people expect that it's a phase your going through and just being rebellious. When your in your older and just weird looking, they just think there's something wrong with you. I couldn't get hired back home for a pizza delivery job fer chris'sakes. Like they thought I was going to lace the pizzas with PCP or something.

[Ubiquitress]

hell, let's just create a new tax for being weird. care to express yourself via body art or unusual style? sure, but it will cost you.
"

hey if they did at least being weird would soon be considered being patriotic. Freaks for deficit control! hahahahahaha

I did have the lady at the DMV ask if I wanted my hair color to be "other" , it is an option.

[Ubiquitress]

you're just now figuring that out? you must not watch very much TV/movies/advertising/all forms of public perception. I don't mean to sound like such an asshole, but pretty much all societies for the past few thousand years have been trying to mold people into conformity to better serve the smooth flow of "progress" as dictated by those in power. things like free thinking and individual creativity, especially if it goes against the traditions and structure doesn't jive.

Kind of crazy that this is the pattern dont you think? I would think that they would want to watch the process of diversification and look for new common threads to chart the progress of the culture at large. Instead it would seem that the whole class gets held back until everyone catches up ,before allowing any of us tomove forward without some kind of persecution as result. the result being in the history books that culture moves forwardin a slow single line, wheras the true picture is forked and wiggly and spurred off in as many directions as chaos will allow.
I guess the moral here is to not measure yourself by their terms and to try and not be annoyed every time they try to flatten you into their line because invariably they will.

[VoltaireBlue]

You're not your fucking piercings and tattoos.

the shit you own ends up owning you

this is 90% of the reason I cut my dreads off.
and strangely enough, 90% of the reason I started them.......

[DonkeyMoses]

Kind of crazy that this is the pattern dont you think? I would think that they would want to watch the process of diversification and look for new common threads to chart the progress of the culture at large. Instead it would seem that the whole class gets held back until everyone catches up ,before allowing any of us tomove forward without some kind of persecution as result. the result being in the history books that culture moves forwardin a slow single line, wheras the true picture is forked and wiggly and spurred off in as many directions as chaos will allow.
I guess the moral here is to not measure yourself by their terms and to try and not be annoyed every time they try to flatten you into their line because invariably they will.

The irony is that they hold you back until there's enough people doing the same thing, then they give it a name and start selling it to the kids.

[Morning Glory]

just do what makes you happy and don't worry so much about what other people are going to think. yeah, I know how much it sucks to be devalued because of perceived flaws, but I don't really see much of a way to integrate that. By that I mean you could fight the DMV and the job market and everyone and try to get them to see things the way you do, and you'll fail.

or else you can try and find a way to make it work by other means, such as riding a bike and in a small way sticking to both car and identity classification culture. you can start your own business for like-minded people or seek out one that other's have started. Just accept that you will never be the vice president of dunder-mifflin because you have your face tatooed, and realize that you wouldn't want to be anyway. or you can join that anarcho-primitivist co-op that I mentioned earlier.

[episode allah]

If you are trying to provide a product for an audience which has not yet solidified then you are encouraging market attention and can’t ulteriorly complain that you were sold-out or held-back. Later, if there’s enough people doing roughly what you do and can provide for that consumer base as well as or better than you then tough shit. You both played the same game but they played it better. If you want to make money from something and still expect to retain an artist-monopoly of that thing then you better be really good. When Trent Reznor started getting acclaim in the early 90s one man industrial ‘artists’ started popping out of the woodwork all over but they never survived. NIN however has always maintained its musical identity.

When people talk about scenes being bought out i want to vomit blood and force-feed them it. Feeling special because your scene is five strong is as patently absurd as feeling depressed because your scene has become five million strong. Scenes by definition are either potential markets or current markets; no ifs and buts. They need paraphernalia to survive and are exactly the same as any other sect in society that will buy items to increase their feeling of self-worth and enforce identity.

[Morning Glory]

he's got a point. but I do think there is a little bit more to it than that. I think the big factor in "selling out" comes from business ethics, or lack of them.

[episode allah]

he's got a point. but I do think there is a little bit more to it than that. I think the big factor in "selling out" comes from business ethics, or lack of them.

Really? I don't see it as an ethical issue at all. It's just a conflict between feelings of self-worth and the laws of supply and demand.

Who is this "he" you speak of?!

[Morning Glory]

you are he...

as you are me and I am he and we are all together. kookookachu.

anyway, I'm going to disagree. supply and demand is what it is. you can have two companies that deal with the same product, the same market and the same customers. one of them can produce a product with quality, the others can use dishonest advertising, one can have a reputation of treating it's employees well, the other can be out of touch and lack direction. that's where the ethics decide the factors of the situation and it's approval or not.

while some people might have a hardline anti-expansion attitude, I think that most people in the small business world's hesitation to go with big business doesn't stem from them not wanting success. It's because of the things that I mentioned above.

when people create something they often will not want to see it in the hands of someone else that doesn't understand thier creative direction. that may be a bit self-serving, yes, but it's also true.

[episode allah]

he's got a point. but I do think there is a little bit more to it than that...

[Vikki Vyle]

Thats crazy! In utah, they let people have hair covering over half of their face and wear colored contact lenses

[Morning Glory]

hair covering over half their face? you mean like werewolves?

aw, that made me think of black spiral.

[Amelia G]

No, I'm not "just now figuring that out". I've been doing this for a while. I left my home because of it. It's one of the last forms of discrimination left to be addressed. Fortunately I now find myself in a town where no one (except Texan tourists) really seems to give a shit. Being a freak in Pittsburgh is not an easy life. Especially if you're not someting obvious like "punk" or "goth" or any number of media driven subcultural catagories that people can put a finger on because they've seen it on tv. And especially if you're in your thirties. When your in your teens, people expect that it's a phase your going through and just being rebellious. When your in your older and just weird looking, they just think there's something wrong with you. I couldn't get hired back home for a pizza delivery job fer chris'sakes. Like they thought I was going to lace the pizzas with PCP or something.

I wish there were a good word for this particular variety of disenfranchised and discriminated against group.

[Ubiquitress]

Thats crazy! In utah, they let people have hair covering over half of their face and wear colored contact lenses

legal beards? in utah? awesome

[DonkeyMoses]

If you are trying to provide a product for an audience which has not yet solidified then you are encouraging market attention and can’t ulteriorly complain that you were sold-out or held-back. Later, if there’s enough people doing roughly what you do and can provide for that consumer base as well as or better than you then tough shit. You both played the same game but they played it better. If you want to make money from something and still expect to retain an artist-monopoly of that thing then you better be really good. When Trent Reznor started getting acclaim in the early 90s one man industrial ‘artists’ started popping out of the woodwork all over but they never survived. NIN however has always maintained its musical identity.

When people talk about scenes being bought out i want to vomit blood and force-feed them it. Feeling special because your scene is five strong is as patently absurd as feeling depressed because your scene has become five million strong. Scenes by definition are either potential markets or current markets; no ifs and buts. They need paraphernalia to survive and are exactly the same as any other sect in society that will buy items to increase their feeling of self-worth and enforce identity.

Ok, um, who's trying to provide a "product"? The offhand aside I made was pointing out the irony of being a person concerned only with the expression of one's individual character and being socialy persecuted as a result. Then when enough people do it in a similar way, then it becomes a "scene". Then the media gets wind of it and the secene becomes a comodity. Over time, that scene becomes all comodity and mass market entertainment having little to do with actual self-expression. You took the ball and ran with it, but we weren't playing with that ball.

Everybody thinks the guy who puts a bananna on his head is some kind of weirdo until they see more people with bannanas on their heads. Even then, they think that they're all weird and nobody wants to play with them until someone gets the idea to start selling banannas. Then they advertise these bannanas with a hip marketing ploy, now everyone wants a bannana to put on their head for fear that they won't be hip unless they do so. They're not expressing anything, they just don't want to be different by not having a bannana head. It's good business sense for the guy who sold the bannanas, definately furthers the evolution of social pereptive reality, but a pain in the ass for the first guy who feels like he has to find something different to put on his head now because the bannana thing has no effect for him anymore, and even if it did, now you can only find expensive bannanas at hot topic. I never want to write the word bannana that many times again.

What is now the mainstream was once the underground. I'm ok with that. That's evolution. It just sucks to be persecuted for it on one side, and put on a pedestal on the other when all your trying to do is be you.

[DonkeyMoses]

I wish there were a good word for this particular variety of disenfranchised and discriminated against group.

Let's come up with one so we can sell it to the kids!

[OliX]

Here's another conspiracy theory from high minded me.

It confuses face recognition programs that is used for tracking public.

[HeadlessBill]

Here's another conspiracy theory from high minded me.

It confuses face recognition programs that is used for tracking public.

I was coming here to say that, though I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

[DonkeyMoses]

I am a conspiracy theorist, but I wasn't going to say that.

[DonkeyMoses]

ok, I'm not actually a consiracy theorist, but I play one on tv.

[jonny.illuminati]

I am a conspiracy theorist, but I wasn't going to say that.

actually having some experience with face recognition software... visible face/neck tattoos and piercings actually provide more tracking data for the software to lock in to... just like radical hair colors allow for easier visual recognition...

hmmm.... so by having piercings you actually make it easier for us... er i mean them to track you

[Morning Glory]

are you a narc johnny? it's ok, you can tell me, I won't tell anyone.

[jonny.illuminati]

are you a narc johnny? it's ok, you can tell me, I won't tell anyone.

20 years in gov... now in a MC and sort of anti-gov...

[soma_stardust]

if the point of an ID is to look like you look, and you always have facial piercings, it seems obvious that they shouldn't change it. *has to look at her ID now...*
D: my piercings aren't there. i never noticed...
ok i'm sad now. i always have them in, i will likely never ever take them out.

~soma~