aparently im a homophobe @_@

[Rockwulf]

This is the 90's, gay, straight, it's all the same thing.

This is the 90's? Where the fuck are you living?

[Morning Glory]

in...the...90's.

[Buster Friendly]

in...the...90's.

I would so totally go back to the 90's...

...I'd start selling Adjustable Rate Mortgages, and Derivative Securities like a mofo...

Then I'd take a bunch of viagra, and raep a gay baby walrus, and club it to death with my engorged member for jeebus at burning man, just to piss off all the hippies.

[Buster Friendly]

oh yeah, and credit default swaps... ooooh yeah, baby.

[Lady Alias]

I'm so fracking glad I'm not the only one still there, too.

[mystoo]

the (early) 90's were fun though weren't they?
double stress on the *early*

[OliX]

Early 90's were explosive for me. Literally

[episode allah]

the (early) 90's were fun though weren't they?

damn right!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1h9Zzkj1Fs

[jonny.illuminati]

90's ? i thought it was the 80s... damn

[Velvet-Tongue]

Scientifically, as far as I know their is no real data showing people are born gay. If i'm wrong then correct me please.

Personally I feel homosexuality is a psychological condition. Not saying homosexuals are crazy or anything like that.

We all grow up and develop feelings for what we think is attractive. The majority of us grow up seeing the opposite sex as attractive. We're told this a lot while we grow.

If you're a young boy and your first erotic situation is with another young boy you might starts associating sexual feelings/romance/love etc with the same gender. All kinda of enviromental factors can effect this.

All that said I don't think marriage should be limited to just opposite sex couplings. If two men want to be married then let them. Same thing with two women. Saying marriage should only be between the same genders verges into religious/cultural ground which is against the constitution.

[soma_stardust]

Scientifically, as far as I know their is no real data showing people are born gay. If i'm wrong then correct me please.

Personally I feel homosexuality is a psychological condition. Not saying homosexuals are crazy or anything like that.

We all grow up and develop feelings for what we think is attractive. The majority of us grow up seeing the opposite sex as attractive. We're told this a lot while we grow.

If you're a young boy and your first erotic situation is with another young boy you might starts associating sexual feelings/romance/love etc with the same gender. All kinda of enviromental factors can effect this.

All that said I don't think marriage should be limited to just opposite sex couplings. If two men want to be married then let them. Same thing with two women. Saying marriage should only be between the same genders verges into religious/cultural ground which is against the constitution.

ok, i have no solid scientific data, because i'm too lazy and busy to look it up. but i know you're wrong.
here's why. i grew up with a religious mom. i was taught, and believed love was heterosexual. my barbies still got freaky with each other. as a little kid, i liked kissing girls. however, i was raised firmly to believe that i was heterosexual. as i grew older, i had a string of boyfriends. it wasn't until my mid-20's, away from my family's influence and exposed to a wider world view, that i realised girls are hot. i was in a long-term relationship with a guy, but i stopped having sexual feelings for him. oh, i still love him to DEATH, he's one of my best friends. but i know deep down that i was never *really* physically attracted to guys, but a girl can make me feel all sorts of squishy in my panties.
tell me how my upbringing influenced me. you can't, because it didn't.

~soma~

[OliX]

Guess you were supposed to be born as a guy but god changed his mind in the last second

[soma_stardust]

heaven forbid! D:
um... well, i guess heaven did forbid, in that case... erm....

~soma~

[OliX]

No worries I was supposed to be born as a pig

[soma_stardust]

oh well, they really fucked up that one then...
pigs are probably happier than humans.

~soma~

[OliX]

I would not be happy if I knew I was a future bacon :/

[soma_stardust]

not all pigs are future bacon...
some get to be easter hams!

~soma~

[OliX]

Yes! That would definitely make me feel happier as a pig. To die for a religious thing.

Pigs are the real martyrs of the christianity.

[Velvet-Tongue]

ok, i have no solid scientific data, because i'm too lazy and busy to look it up. but i know you're wrong.
here's why. i grew up with a religious mom. i was taught, and believed love was heterosexual. my barbies still got freaky with each other. as a little kid, i liked kissing girls. however, i was raised firmly to believe that i was heterosexual. as i grew older, i had a string of boyfriends. it wasn't until my mid-20's, away from my family's influence and exposed to a wider world view, that i realised girls are hot. i was in a long-term relationship with a guy, but i stopped having sexual feelings for him. oh, i still love him to DEATH, he's one of my best friends. but i know deep down that i was never *really* physically attracted to guys, but a girl can make me feel all sorts of squishy in my panties.
tell me how my upbringing influenced me. you can't, because it didn't.

~soma~

Okay so you got older and left behind your family and cultural views. Once you got into a new culture where fem-on-fem sexuality is okay you started feeling attracted to girls.

So now girls are your preference or are you full lesbian?

That proves really nothing to be honest. To me all that really shows is your sexuality is based more upon the culture you live in.

/turn off science and go into personal opinion mode.

Personally, I doubt a sexuality is really that biological. Sure you know woman make babies but if we all grew up in an open-sexual society the mass majority of people would be bisexual. Thats my opinion of it anyway.

[KilLAtomiK]

Scientifically, as far as I know their is no real data showing people are born gay. If i'm wrong then correct me please.

Personally I feel homosexuality is a psychological condition. Not saying homosexuals are crazy or anything like that.

We all grow up and develop feelings for what we think is attractive. The majority of us grow up seeing the opposite sex as attractive. We're told this a lot while we grow.

If you're a young boy and your first erotic situation is with another young boy you might starts associating sexual feelings/romance/love etc with the same gender. All kinda of enviromental factors can effect this.

All that said I don't think marriage should be limited to just opposite sex couplings. If two men want to be married then let them. Same thing with two women. Saying marriage should only be between the same genders verges into religious/cultural ground which is against the constitution.

this is prety much what i was tryin say im just not very good with words bein slighly brain damaged and all . i think anyone should be able to start a family if its what they truly want.

[soma_stardust]

Okay so you got older and left behind your family and cultural views. Once you got into a new culture where fem-on-fem sexuality is okay you started feeling attracted to girls.

So now girls are your preference or are you full lesbian?

That proves really nothing to be honest. To me all that really shows is your sexuality is based more upon the culture you live in.

/turn off science and go into personal opinion mode.

Personally, I doubt a sexuality is really that biological. Sure you know woman make babies but if we all grew up in an open-sexual society the mass majority of people would be bisexual. Thats my opinion of it anyway.

i disagree. still.
because by your reasoning, the culture you live in is what makes you hetero/homosexual. i have already proved that i was raised, as most people are, in a very strictly heterosexual household. (god would punish me for liking girls) these would be my formative years. and, as i've pointed out, i still had homosexual leanings, but didn't know what they meant. it was after i had passed my formative years, when all this would have made any difference whatsoever, that my mind was finally able to grasp the idea that i might be a lesbian. and, i'll point out again, i was never really attracted to guys. i just wanted whatever form of attention i recieved.
i feel like i'm repeating myself here and going in circles. some people will get it, some will not.
also, as i've pointed out, there are examples of homosexuality in non-human animals. tell me how that's psychological rather than biological. (i'm not saying animals don't think and feel, but obviously they are more driven by biological factors. the nature part of nature v. nurture definitely wins out with animals in the wild.)

~soma~

[Bikerpunk]

Of course pigs are happier. They come for five minutes, straight.

[batzilla]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...w080428D07.DTL

This very interesting study found that men with multiple older brothers are more likely to be homosexual, but that this is only the case for men with biological older brothers, not those who were raised with older adopted brothers or older step-brothers. This strongly suggests a genetic basis for Teh Ghey.

My totally unscientific, speculative guess is that this could actually be a viable evolutionary strategy, in a counterintuitive way. Let's say a woman has three sons. They spread their seed and are fruitful. At that point, her genetic line is doing pretty well. If she has a fourth son, it might make more sense to have him help take care of the existing grandkids, rather than breed and create even more mouths to feed. So, the gay son gets to be the loving uncle who watches over the kids and contributes to their survival.

http://news-service.stanford.edu/pr/...10Arc5328.html

Lots of good tidbits in this one. For instance, a study found that if one identical twin is gay, the other has a 50% chance of being gay too. This is much, much higher than the rate of Teh Ghey in the general population, which suggests that being gay is genetic. But it's also not the 100% chance that we'd expect if being gay was solely genetic. Which doesn't mean that it's a matter of what we think of as "nurture" either, since presumably these identical twin pairs are being raised in the same environment with the same parents.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...eep-study.html

Gay sheep! Yay!

While this may be interesting, I agree with all the folks who have pointed out that why someone is queer doesn't matter. What matters is that we should all be free to love, fuck and marry folks from whichever gender(s) we prefer.

[soma_stardust]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...w080428D07.DTL

This very interesting study found that men with multiple older brothers are more likely to be homosexual, but that this is only the case for men with biological older brothers, not those who were raised with older adopted brothers or older step-brothers. This strongly suggests a genetic basis for Teh Ghey.

My totally unscientific, speculative guess is that this could actually be a viable evolutionary strategy, in a counterintuitive way. Let's say a woman has three sons. They spread their seed and are fruitful. At that point, her genetic line is doing pretty well. If she has a fourth son, it might make more sense to have him help take care of the existing grandkids, rather than breed and create even more mouths to feed. So, the gay son gets to be the loving uncle who watches over the kids and contributes to their survival.

http://news-service.stanford.edu/pr/...10Arc5328.html

Lots of good tidbits in this one. For instance, a study found that if one identical twin is gay, the other has a 50% chance of being gay too. This is much, much higher than the rate of Teh Ghey in the general population, which suggests that being gay is genetic. But it's also not the 100% chance that we'd expect if being gay was solely genetic. Which doesn't mean that it's a matter of what we think of as "nurture" either, since presumably these identical twin pairs are being raised in the same environment with the same parents.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...eep-study.html

Gay sheep! Yay!

While this may be interesting, I agree with all the folks who have pointed out that why someone is queer doesn't matter. What matters is that we should all be free to love, fuck and marry folks from whichever gender(s) we prefer.

you're awesome.

~soma~

[Buster Friendly]

I used to be unconvinced about the "born gay" thing, but more and more studies point that way all the time.

Sooner or later they'll prove it to everyone, but the christers who'll insist that they can 'cure' hummasechualitee.

[mystoo]

so it's nature vs. nurture...why does it matter? why can't people just be happy with whatever it is they feel? it doesn't have to be an argument.......these are just my drunken rambling thoughts btw.....whatever....

[~*Sorceress*~]

My best friend was born Gay but he never realised until he was about 15.
Him and his boyfriend are so cute together and when I hear stupid things like the fact that a Gay marriage isn't called a marriage (it's called a civil partnership) or how Gay people aren't allowed to give blood, then it makes me so angry.
And people like Sarah Palin and her campaign to "Pray Away The Gay" infuriate me.
Gay people are just normal people with slightly different feelings.
But they're still human beings and they deserve to be treated like humans.

[Bikerpunk]

The day they find out how to prove, genetically, that gay is inborn,

the Christers will want to make blood tests, so that these children can be aborted.

[Vexbeast]

Assuming someone -does- get a gay-gene... there's no reason to believe they're gay before they prove it. I don't see this as a nature vs. nurture argument at all, because if someone is truly, definitively gay their entire life, but believes themselves to be straight, who's to call them gay? True enough it would be more fair to judge people on their thoughts than their actions, but we can't do that. Social-conditioning ate your god.

And yes, in the end it isn't important at all, but it -is- the topic of the thread.

Also, Soma and Olix's side-conversation was the best derailment I've seen on these forums so far.

And that's -really- saying something. XD

[Rockwulf]

My stance has always been that you should go ahead and do whatever or whoever the fuck you want as long as nobody's getting hurt and I don't have to see it. Now before you all jump down my throat about "why shouldn't we be able to hold hands in public like everyone else" or whatever, keep in mind that that goes for straight people too. Nobody wants to see your sloppy asses drooling all over each other at the bar or whatever.

[DonkeyMoses]

there's something wrong with all of you.

you are all deeply, deeply, disturbingly wrong.

and it has nothing to do with what you do, or don't do with your sticky bits.

just wrong.

That's not very friendly, Buster.

[DonkeyMoses]

It seems to me to be both. Some have a genetic predisposition to gayness that is undeniable, while others will turn to it because it is fasionable in their social strata, or are locked up with others of their gender. Where I have an attraction to some men, I have no driving desire to have sex with them.

[Ubiquitress]

thank you Batzilla for the new info .I love the theory about brothers , makes alot of sense within the biological structure. all i know is that i have always thought both sides of the human dichotomy are exquisite . Growing up in a relatively relaxed family and I do stress relatively I never really had to deal with others perceptions of which was the right choice to have relations with. I guess I was lucky, I got to have free choice to have both options as my desires ranged and changed.

[Morning Glory]

The day they find out how to prove, genetically, that gay is inborn,

the Christers will want to make blood tests, so that these children can be aborted.

that's what I was thinking. it's kinda fuckin scary. Like that movie Gatica. I can totally see that being the way things are.

[mystoo]

.
Sarah Palin and her campaign to "Pray Away The Gay"

is that for real? pray away the gay? wow.i don't pay much attention to american politics.

[Ali Stardust]

i really don't understand peoples need to have everything explained all scientifically and such they always got to make stuff all complicated when it should be as simple as we are all people and we are different and we all deserve some basic rights

(excuse my grammar mistakes)

[OliX]

It's the need for knowledge and understanding. I find it amazing and beautiful.

[DoctorZ]

Why do humans want to understand everything scientifically?

It's so we can understand everything ELSE scientifically.

[episode allah]

I don't get why people keep saying that trying to understand homosexuality scientifically and in terms of genetics doesn't matter. It matters as much as anything else that is still as uncertain; you can't ignore things just to stay in the safe-zone. Anyone with half a brain knows that civil rights shouldn't be based on gender or sexuality but in terms of science, psychology and social science, investigations like these are very worthwhile.

[episode allah]

My best friend was born Gay but he never realised until he was about 15.
Him and his boyfriend are so cute together and when I hear stupid things like the fact that a Gay marriage isn't called a marriage (it's called a civil partnership) or how Gay people aren't allowed to give blood, then it makes me so angry.
And people like Sarah Palin and her campaign to "Pray Away The Gay" infuriate me.
Gay people are just normal people with slightly different feelings.
But they're still human beings and they deserve to be treated like humans.

I’m not saying you’re wrong but I really don't see what the problem is with having to call gay marriages ‘civil partnerships’. I'm not gay but if i ever get married i want a civil partnership too.

In Western Countries the concept of marriage is almost exclusively born of Christian ideals and in fact stems from the Bible. It is, as far as I can tell (and I‘m totally willing to forfeit my opinion if someone can show me proof) by definition a religious & social union between men and women. Yes, a man and a women, not two men and not two women. Call it stupid, call it whatever, but that’s what it is.

The more interesting point is why would gay people want to be recognized by a religious institution which has persecuted and defamed them for centuries. It’s the state which will end discrimination against homosexuals and that’s exactly why it's called a CIVIL union. Religions are basically clubs and they have their own set of rules which I think, however primitive, should be respected so long as there always remains separation between church and state.