Tattoos vs. Piercings vs. Plastic Surgery

[Amelia G]

Why do people who are all gung ho into say tattoos get disgusted by liposuction? Why do people where every woman over 40 in their family gets a facelift cringe when they see a tongue piercing?

[Kidthorazine]

Because people look at something like a facelift as a medical procedure and others think that getting plastic surgery is a lot worse for your body than tattoos or piercings actually it probably is tattooin and piercing are both ancient art forms and plastic surgery (in most cases) is for shallow 50 year olds who cant stand not being "attractive"

[YouMakeMeWanna000]

cause theyre close minded...i personaly love stuff like scarification and all sorts of body art- i love seeing people cut open with a scapel too so heh

[Amelia G]

Fundamentally, I think people tend to get inked or pierced for very similar reasons to the ones people have to get a breast lift or a tummy tuck.

People want to look more a certain way either for themselves or for others. It may be to fit an inner view of self and it may be to be more attractive to potential mates, but I can't think of too many motives which would apply to one type of modification and not the other.

I remember what a big deal it was when Tattoo Savage was showcasing piercing and scarification in addition to tattoos. A lot of people from the tattoo community disapproved and felt that the two types of modding were totally different and that one was art and the other was mutilation.

[Jozie]

I don't get it. But I know my mothers family thinks Im the spawn of the devil for having large tattoos, yet I can't think of a single female in her family over 30 that has yet to go under the knife. At least I know when I get my boobs in January they won't go ballistic over them, hell I may even get invited to more family dinners! lol

[YouMakeMeWanna000]

my mother's 42 and she hasnt gone under the knife...people think im her mother...she so young looking...grrrr

[PaulCat]

Personally, i think it's all body modification.
Whatever way you choose to do it makes no real difference.

It could be a brace to straighten your teeth, it could be an ear ring, it could be full sleeve tattoos, a brand new nose and bigger boobs!

i dont see any difference, but some are more socially acceptable in certain circles.

minor cosmetic surgery is widely accepted, it's only when someone's had so many facelifts they look like Michael Jackson that people tend to look down on it.

Tattooing is famous for being a painful process, and to people who have never looked into tattooing, or even considered it it can convey a certain image.

I guess its understandable really, if a bit hypocritical.

Paul Cat.

[Histrionica]

Why do people who are all gung ho into say tattoos get disgusted by liposuction? Why do people where every woman over 40 in their family gets a facelift cringe when they see a tongue piercing?

Because most people need to feel superior to someone else in order to feel that they have value to society. The easiest way to do that is to create groups, cliques and classes - you either belong or you don't belong.

My two cents worth.



~Histrionica~

[CPRB]

yeah and I never belong...soo time for the knife and the needle?

[Nautilus]

I don't get it. But I know my mothers family thinks Im the spawn of the devil for having large tattoos, yet I can't think of a single female in her family over 30 that has yet to go under the knife. At least I know when I get my boobs in January they won't go ballistic over them, hell I may even get invited to more family dinners! lol

NNNNOOOOO! Another pair of beautiful titties lost to fucking sacks of shit. Please reconsider. Why do people think big boobs are prettier than natural boobs? There is more to boobs than size! I personally prefer natural breasts and it breaks my heart to see so many fakes out there. Can I get an A cup or a B? NO. I am deprived my breast preference by all pornography It looks so freaky--these slender little things with D cups. They look like they're about to break in half. The back pain must be excruciating!!!

[Nautilus]

Why do people who are all gung ho into say tattoos get disgusted by liposuction? Why do people where every woman over 40 in their family gets a facelift cringe when they see a tongue piercing?

Because liposuction is more dangerous than brain surgery yet rarely necessary. Who says, hell I'll risk my life to be smarter? No one. Few even put fourth the effort. Who says, hell, I'll risk my life and waste money that could be feeding people to LOOK more "beautiful"? WAY TOO FUCKING MANY PEOPLE.
I will see you in the hospital, only I'll be the one hooking up your catheter.
Thank you girls, who make a lovely example for our youth by starving. Guess what, when you starve your body you starve your brain, your brain is the fattiest organ in your body (after pure fat). You are making yourself stupid so that you can look "good."
Just some concerns coming from your resident brain lover. but who needs a brain when you're "beautiful"?

[Amelia G]

Hmm, I know excessively low fat diets cause brain damage. I had a friend who lost like sixty pounds mondo fast and was never the same afterwards in the brain department. I don't know this for a fact, but I think lipo does not have the same effect because the fat is pulled from a specific area and not all over. I've actually heard that one of the problems with liposuction is that random other parts of the body will produce more fat to sort of compensate i.e. I know someone who got her thighs lipoed and developed really weird arm fat afterwards. So I don't think lipo would decrease brain fat.

[purplepixie]

i think its to do with social groups the people who go under the knife to look younger and thinner generally have a different idea to others of what beauty is beauty=money to the people who would have tummy tucks and face lifts because it creates similarties between them and there favourite celebraties which is why they look down on people with the cheaper methods of body modification ie tattos and pirceings as if its something dirty. how many A list celebreties (by which i mean film and tv stars not short lived pop stars) do you know of that support large tattos and piceings other than the one or two pair in their lower ear lobes

[purplepixie]

saying that however when im 18 im planning on having a tatoo and would like to start saving for a boob job aswell

[Amelia G]

I think you are right that there appears to be some sense of class difference between plastic surgery and tattooing, yet both can be done well for a lot of money or the right connections and both can be disasters on too small a budget or without the right contacts.

[Caligula]

It's a good point - what is the difference between plastic surgery and body-modification? I think part of it is that plastic surgery is an attempt to alter your appearance without people noticing, whereas body-mods has quite the reverse intent. It's funny, I can watch the grimmest of gore flicks over dinner with nary a flinch, but if while channel-hopping over morning coffee I catch sometime daytime show featuring a plastic surgery op and I nearly heave. Liposuction has to be one of the grossest procedures on god's foul earth.

Most plastic surgery falls down at the first hurdle in the 'looking natural' stakes. Fake boobs - sticking out at right angles like two halves of a cantaloupe - are about as attractive as a badly manufactured Barbie doll.

Teeth's another funny one. Many Brits are bemused when they become aware of the negative American stereotype of us as a nation of folk with bad teeth. I grew up in the US for a fair amount of my childhood, and I'm grateful my parents had the sense not to subject me to the grotesque orthodontics which seemed standard among many American middle class teens. The psychological damage of strapping a steel cage to the front of somebody's head while they're at that horribly self-conscious stage must be appaling. Capped teeth just look, well odd, in most cases. Teeth are not supposed to look like polished piano keys any more than tits should look like gravity-defying beachballs. People are weird.

[Nautilus]

Hmm, I know excessively low fat diets cause brain damage. I had a friend who lost like sixty pounds mondo fast and was never the same afterwards in the brain department. I don't know this for a fact, but I think lipo does not have the same effect because the fat is pulled from a specific area and not all over. I've actually heard that one of the problems with liposuction is that random other parts of the body will produce more fat to sort of compensate i.e. I know someone who got her thighs lipoed and developed really weird arm fat afterwards. So I don't think lipo would decrease brain fat.

Liposuction does not decrease brain fat, but it is very dangerous and you could die.
I was getting off topic when I wrote about decreased brain fat--it is anorexia that causes brain damage (as well as heart disease, hormonal imbalance, stunted growth, and a slew of other problems). I should know, I've been there. You'd be surprised at what anorexic is. Not everyone who is anorexic is in the hospital just like not everyone who is dangerously obese is in the hospital. Calculate the BMI of most models and you will find they are anorexic, which means they are so low in fat it is causing damage to their internal organs. Being anorexic is not the same as being underweight, it's ok to be underweight just like it is ok to be over, it is when you go too far that there are problems.
-Nathan

[Nautilus]

saying that however when im 18 im planning on having a tatoo and would like to start saving for a boob job aswell

Do you value yourself as more than just an object? Why don't you spend that boob job money on college? Honey, you're beautiful, you don't need a damn thing done.
-Nate

[Amelia G]

Do you value yourself as more than just an object? Why don't you spend that boob job money on college? Honey, you're beautiful, you don't need a damn thing done.
-Nate

My brain was pricey and I've got the breasts nature gave me. But I'm a bad candidate for plastic surgery. I almost died getting my wisdom teeth out.

If someone's body can take it and they like the look, how is getting breast work different from getting inked or pierced or even dying hair or putting on makeup?

[Pzychotic]

Well I have been reading this thread for a few days now and thought I'd add my 2 cents...

Used to be that I said why mess with the perfection that the god's have given us but, I was being a little hypocritical... I have a few tattoo's and piercings and I was refering to those going for augmentation surgery... Well after I sat and thought about my statements I realized what a fool I was starting to look like... My feeling is now that if anyone wants any kind of body augmentation, KOOL... If your happy with it go for it... A boob job, tummy tuck and nose job is no different than a tattoo or getting pierced, IMO... They are all some sort of surgical proceedure, no matter how big or small or costly for that matter...

[memorydream]

Wow, a lot of denial and questionable sources here. It seems to be a personal interest thread that is more about getting people to conform for profit versus health. I know of no one who has plastic surgery, whether for accidents or "physical imperfections" that has not had health problems down the road. So...

Amelia - You can't get a tatoo, but you can lose weight, for beginning of thread. YouMakeMeWanna000 - As for reponse two, boy that reminds me of Thomas Moore (Care of the Soul, Soulmates, Reinchantment of Everyday Life) discussing Narcissus.

On this response-
"Fundamentally, I think people tend to get inked or pierced for very similar reasons to the ones people have to get a breast lift or a tummy tuck."

You think? Where is your hard data for that? How dare you proclaim what other people think and incite them to what could possible be risking their lives. I was married to a model and I cannot tell you the number of people who run into vast health problems from the pressure to conform on that.

"People want to look more a certain way either for themselves or for others. It may be to fit an inner view of self and it may be to be more attractive to potential mates, but I can't think of too many motives which would apply to one type of modification and not the other."

I suppose if you are more animal than intellectual, this would be fine. But, we are not and possess the ability to think and communicate. This sounds like an excuse to think in a way that may not be stable or supportive of people just being healthy, natural, unique and therefore genetically diverse, which is imperative to going beyond disease and inferior genes of any species.

"I remember what a big deal it was when Tattoo Savage was showcasing piercing and scarification in addition to tattoos. A lot of people from the tattoo community disapproved and felt that the two types of modding were totally different and that one was art and the other was mutilation."

I don't recall such a period and am older. This sort of thing has been going on with millions since the beginning of time and has higher callings to social statement, culture and personal expression. Whereas liposuction may be perceived as: "Uh, I'm fat and I want the easy way out."

On this response-
"I don't get it. But I know my mothers family thinks Im the spawn of the devil for having large tattoos, yet I can't think of a single female in her family over 30 that has yet to go under the knife. At least I know when I get my boobs in January they won't go ballistic over them, hell I may even get invited to more family dinners! lol"

Is this the superficial, human freak show that Hollywood has become. Where if you don't like it, have to money to change it and do? What kind of elitist and child deforming nonsense is that? I have no problem telling my child, nieces and nephews what I feel and how disrespectful this, again elitist, position is.

With response-
"Personally, i think it's all body modification.
Whatever way you choose to do it makes no real difference.

It could be a brace to straighten your teeth, it could be an ear ring, it could be full sleeve tattoos, a brand new nose and bigger boobs!

i dont see any difference, but some are more socially acceptable in certain circles.

minor cosmetic surgery is widely accepted, it's only when someone's had so many facelifts they look like Michael Jackson that people tend to look down on it.

Tattooing is famous for being a painful process, and to people who have never looked into tattooing, or even considered it it can convey a certain image.

I guess its understandable really, if a bit hypocritical.

Paul Cat."

Sounds pretty typical male-female acceptance there, very Freudian and dangerously remiss of what we have learned through the decades about who we are, who we want to be and who we MUST NOT be, because that is not only not who we are, but gives others the opportunity to take from us and accept us on surface values only. Sneaky, very male chauvinism there.

Way to go, Histronica! I'm proud of you.

On this point - "yeah and I never belong...soo time for the knife and the needle?"

And you still won't belong, because you can't really change who you are and what you've been on the inside. Shame it won't really change much and the emptiness will reek revenge unlike any you have seen.

Again, The fact that your cells and made of fat, and your entire cell walls are made of lipids pretty much means you are at risk for any type of bodily damage or further complications to prevailing body issues and damage (long and short term, as well as future injuries). Also, you seriously risk the health of any future children. In the brain, you need fat, via the Mylean sheath, to make sure brain impulses function properly. Natural body fat loss gives the body time to adjust. Even with drugs, the body is in emergency/damaged mode and will give you a hunger that may be considered painful as it tries to adjust back from this radical change you have forced on it.

A lot of statements of fear and self isolation here, and no appearence change is going to make it happen. They will find something else that you can't afford and can never be for you to strain to get accepted by. It's sad to me that people see nothing in there life but the need to consume, conform and not learn from prevailing circumstance why things are the way they are (i.e. science, fate, karma, etc.).

I however, bare the shame of this thread as those of my age and older have failed in teaching people how to be better human beings when they think this form of personally inflicted near-**** is acceptable.

I stand by this.

-md

[franziska]

I don't think either one really matters; it's all about personal choice. Personally, I want tattoos once I'm old enough. I don't want liposuction, or a boob job. That's my choice.

Other people may want liposuction, and not tattoos. Others may want both, or none. It's all the same. We're all still people, right?

[Amelia G]

memorydream - I worked for just about every issue of Tattoo Savage from 1997 until they went bankrupt, so I think I can safely say that my information is accurate and Savage did in fact take a lot of flack for showcasing piercing and scarification and other mods which did not necessarily have the stamp of approval from the more traditional tattoo community.

I think Jozie's ink is beautiful. I haven't seen her breasts or heard her plans for them. But I do know she doesn't live in Hollywood, so I don't think conforming to the Hollywood freak show has much to do with her motives.

In point of fact, changing your appearance can change your life. For example, Courtney Love has been very candid about the fact that boys did not like her before she got a nose job and it seems like it just makes people so darn mad that she could change her life.

I used to volunteer at a mental institution when I was at university. One of the main reasons I quit was that I really felt that one of the women I was spending the most time with there would be helped a lot more by a simple makeover than by the dangerous medications which dried out her mouth and throat and nose and didn't really make her feel like she could take on the world.

It would be great if we could all see each other's souls easily, but physical appearance is a form of expression. Hopefully, especially for more dangerous or time-consuming or difficult procedures, appearance is about self-expression.

But, to be honest, sometimes having other people treat one a bit more nicely can make a difference in a person's whole life. Of course, it would be unhealthy to be with someone who only liked your huge artificial breasts or your angel wing back piece, but it is silly to think that others will not notice personal presentation. Are you really going to give everyone a fair chance to show you what a great person they are? In my experience, beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes to the bone.

Oh, and this is a minor footnote really, but liposuction is not supposed to be used for weight loss. The procedure is for the purpose of removing little bits of jiggle which can not be exercized or dieted off. Yes, there are people who do it wrong, but there are piercers who will give gutter punks with no place to shower 8 gauge neck piercings.

[Nautilus]

Wow, MemoryDream, I thought I was the only one who cared. Of course, being a dad I can understand how you would be worried about people mutilating themselves.
What's wrong with a little jiggle? I wish people would not liposuction away their little flaws because that is what makes them unique and gorgious.
I have too much to write on this subject, so I might just start another thread.

[Amelia G]

Wow, MemoryDream, I thought I was the only one who cared. Of course, being a dad I can understand how you would be worried about people mutilating themselves.
What's wrong with a little jiggle? I wish people would not liposuction away their little flaws because that is what makes them unique and gorgious.
I have too much to write on this subject, so I might just start another thread.

That's a good idea to start a thread about. My sort of topic here was really just why it is that there are people on the tattoo side who vehemently hate lipo and people on the face lift side who vehemently hate piercings etc. when they seem to me to all be intrusive procedures, undergone for the purpose of changing one's appearance, which require practitioners with both scientific knowledge and artistic skill.

[ForrestBlack]

I however, bare the shame of this thread as those of my age and older have failed in teaching people how to be better human beings when they think this form of personally inflicted near-**** is acceptable.
I stand by this.
-md

I don't see how it could be anything like "personally inflicted near-****" just because you don't feel comfortable with a choice I make about my body. You don't own me. If I consent, what business is it of yours? This wasn't a thread about what was or was not considered safe or even wise, it's about people warped views of the choices other people make with their own bodies. Risk assessment is a totally different debate. Some people modify themselves for good reasons and some for not so good reasons. Some find what they were seeking through transformation and some do not. But, I think blanket statements about this is good and that is bad because I don't like it are counter to the higher goals of personal freedom.


And my minor footnote is that people should be careful when they assert that they must know better because they assume they are older. That's some shaky ground there. If you have experiences that shape your views, by all means, share them to underline your point of view. But, I know a number of old people that don't know much about anything.

[macabrette]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can see both sides, and if I had an endless supply of money, I'd do a wide range of modifications to my body, from tats to lipo. The tattoos I would do because of personal expression, and the lipo just because there's one part of my body that's completely disproportionate to the rest no matter how much I weigh. Still, I recognize that there's nothing wrong with the way I am now, which is why I'm not spending money I could put to better use.
I think nobody should be looked down on based on what they choose to look like. Just because I think fake boobs look like a pair of bowls taped to a skinny girl's chest doesn't mean my opinion is invalid since everyone who buys a porno disagrees with me-- it just means the people who buy that specific porn have a different opinion of what they like. Actually, with unlimited resources, I would probably get a boob job myself -- not to make them bigger, but to put them back where they were when I was a teeneager!

[Amelia G]

With unlimited resources, including of course magic, I would probably get everything but my brain put back to where it was when I was a teenager. Ooh, and my cheekbones. Those are way better now.

[Nautilus]

Funny, I had a cousin who got boob reduction 'cus they were so big they hurt her back so badly.
Memory has a point, a lot of plastic surgery comes from low self esteem. I don't think it is what people do to themselves we find disturbing, it's what we encourage people to do to themselves. As a culture, we put pressure on people to be a certain way when really it should, like you say, be something they truely desire straight from their heart, not from media brain washing.
Yeah, you all have made some good points though and have softened me up a bit on the issue.

[Amelia G]

Funny, I had a cousin who got boob reduction 'cus they were so big they hurt her back so badly.
Memory has a point, a lot of plastic surgery comes from low self esteem. I don't think it is what people do to themselves we find disturbing, it's what we encourage people to do to themselves. As a culture, we put pressure on people to be a certain way when really it should, like you say, be something they truely desire straight from their heart, not from media brain washing.
Yeah, you all have made some good points though and have softened me up a bit on the issue.

Forrest and I have actually talked more than one of our models specifically out of getting breast augmentation. I think that, if a girl already has fans of her current body type, it just isn't a good move. I think that if a girl can't get a good doctor now *and* a good doctor to re-do them down the line, then it is not a good idea. I think augmentation works better on certain body types. I also know that aftercare for breast augmentation is like the 7th circle of Hell and, if the girl lacks either self-discipline or pain tolerance, then breast augmentation would not be a good idea.

I'm pretty sure I could come up with a similar list of reasons why some people shouldn't get facial tattoos though, but some of our models have gorgeous ink above the neck and I love photographing it and it works for them both socially and as individuals.

[ForrestBlack]

Funny, I had a cousin who got boob reduction 'cus they were so big they hurt her back so badly.
Memory has a point, a lot of plastic surgery comes from low self esteem. I don't think it is what people do to themselves we find disturbing, it's what we encourage people to do to themselves. As a culture, we put pressure on people to be a certain way when really it should, like you say, be something they truely desire straight from their heart, not from media brain washing.
Yeah, you all have made some good points though and have softened me up a bit on the issue.

My perspective is a bit like the old adage 'I may disagree with what you are saying, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it.' What I would encourage someone to do is probably very different from my respect for their right to do it. If it makes them happy, who am I to tell them it is wrong? Blue Blood has always been on a mission to expand what the overall society feels comfortable embracing as attractive and culturally valid. Many of the looks and lifestyles people find bleeding into the mainstream today are things we fought hard to present in positive and attractive light in the many years since we started. I think it's fair to say that Blue Blood has put a lot more pressure on the overall society to embrace a wider range of body types and self presentation or expression styles, than we have put pressure on individuals to conform to some specific body image ideal.

[CPRB]

Oh my, forrest my mom taught me that saying when iwas a kid, I find it hard to say anything except your last remarsk are basically how I feel.

[Nautilus]

My perspective is a bit like the old adage 'I may disagree with what you are saying, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it.' What I would encourage someone to do is probably very different from my respect for their right to do it. If it makes them happy, who am I to tell them it is wrong? Blue Blood has always been on a mission to expand what the overall society feels comfortable embracing as attractive and culturally valid. Many of the looks and lifestyles people find bleeding into the mainstream today are things we fought hard to present in positive and attractive light in the many years since we started. I think it's fair to say that Blue Blood has put a lot more pressure on the overall society to embrace a wider range of body types and self presentation or expression styles, than we have put pressure on individuals to conform to some specific body image ideal.

Well, you certainly have some very unique ladies on Blue Blood, which I appreciate. Different body types, style, and all that is very appealing to me. (and yes I think some of that body art is kick-ass!)

[BrightStar]

Off topic, or maybe somehow still on topic: I find Piercings and Tattoos can either be incredibly appealing if done well. A perfect example of Prominent tatoos on a person forming together to be Very attractive would be Rachel Face. She is incredibly hot!


On a side note: Religion may be partly responsible for those attitudes, as Body art is more open and honest, and expresses individuality of a person.

Body art in most current cultures is a deviation of the cookie cutter type society, where they want most aspects to be the same, such as clothing, religion, movies, books,etc.

Although in other cultures, Body art, Individuality, etc is highly encouraged.

[karyn]

Off topic, or maybe somehow still on topic: I find Piercings and Tattoos can either be incredibly appealing if done well. A perfect example of Prominent tatoos on a person forming together to be Very attractive would be Rachel Face. She is incredibly hot!


On a side note: Religion may be partly responsible for those attitudes, as Body art is more open and honest, and expresses individuality of a person.

Body art in most current cultures is a deviation of the cookie cutter type society, where they want most aspects to be the same, such as clothing, religion, movies, books,etc.

Although in other cultures, Body art, Individuality, etc is highly encouraged.

Body art in many cultures was a specific rite of manhood and was completely culturally dictated. You say you have no tattoos but you feel pressure to eventually get some.

[BrightStar]

Body art in many cultures was a specific rite of manhood and was completely culturally dictated. You say you have no tattoos but you feel pressure to eventually get some.

I kind of mentioned that also, but left out a lot of details.

There is no peer pressure to get the Tatoos. The only reason I dont have tatoos yet is :

A: father and grandmother
B: Money, and also finding a good Artist.
C: Deciding where to place the tatoo.

I am thinking of getting the Symbol in My Avatar as a tatoo. Probably on My Arm, Chest, or Forehead, but I dont know where yet.

[mollycase]

I kind of mentioned that also, but left out a lot of details.

There is no peer pressure to get the Tatoos. The only reason I dont have tatoos yet is :

A: father and grandmother
B: Money, and also finding a good Artist.
C: Deciding where to place the tatoo.

I am thinking of getting the Symbol in My Avatar as a tatoo. Probably on My Arm, Chest, or Forehead, but I dont know where yet.

Do not, under any circumstances, get that put on your forehead, sweetie. You will look like Rimmer from Red Dwarf and nobody wants that.

[BrightStar]

Rimmer?

[mollycase]

Oh dear, perhaps you are too young. Arnold Judas Rimmer was a character on the old sf show Red Dwarf and, when he died, he was brought back as a hologram. Holograms on that show were marked with a large silver H in the middle of their foreheads and they looked a bit silly.

[BrightStar]

I remember the show, but it has been a while since I saw any of it. As a result, I forgot almost all of the stuff about it.