End of the official 911 bluff version.

[OliX]

So, have you guys seen this?

Now there's hard evidence that every conspiracy theorist knew in years.



How will this be accepted in the world?

[OliX]

Whole journal:
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/co...001/7TOCPJ.SGM

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

So, effectively 8 years after the event they discovered that the debris (collected 10 min after the collapse) was a large amount of reacted nano-thermite.

Putting aside for a moment the unreliability of the evidence (the collected debris, not the science) you have to ask yourself:

Is loading up a building with mountains of incendiaries and detonating them in time with a pair of airplanes hitting the building the best way to covertly destroy the building?

[malcolm]

um gee willickers, you'd think the highly flammable airplane fuel being sparked by all that metal and such nott o meniton the pressurised cabins full of oxygen would be enough to blow up a building. how lame.

I think people who try to make anything wether a profit or a conspiracy about september 11th should go hang themselves.

alot of people died that day and no matter how many plates you sell or conspiracy theories people come up with, it isnt gonna bring those people back and it isnt gonna make the families feel any more complete. if anything, it keeps picking at the scab of it.

[athenahollow]

I would say it's one OF the more effective ways. The buildings were huge. It isn't like they could have gone in, blew em up, and just never rebuilt em on their own.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if this had anything to do with Cheney and his crusades of power in the white house while he was 2nd in command.... but that may be the conspiracy theorist in myself

And Malcolm: No. Jet fuel doesn't get that hot. Ever. No matter how much you burn it, or expose more oxygen. It can't melt metal and concrete.

[malcolm]

see, here's my biggest beef with why i dont think it's a conspiracy. if they ahd spent so much time plotting out how to blow this thingup, why didnt they shut the buildings down?

if theywere going for symbolism and it was all planned out by 'the gov" then why was things business as usual that day?

wether jet fuel gets that hot or not i just dont see it as being some big planned out plot by our own government to give us an excuse to go back into iraq to gain control of the oil fields out there.

granted, it didnt take dubya long to decide iraq was a main target but im sorry, the guy nearly choked to death on a pretzel while watching football, i seriously doubt he would have the know how to plot all that together let alone dick cheney who may seem like a badass but who, if memory does recall went into hiding in the woods for about three days after 'accidentally" shooting his hunting partner in the face like a little girl.

and it's not like this wasnt the first atempt to blowing the buildings up either. anyone remember the ryder van bombing in the early nineties?

[OliX]

It can teach something Malcolm so that these things don't repeat.

[OliX]

Found this freaky video. Conspiracy or not it just freaks me out.



What if this was true?

[athenahollow]

Oh, I'm not denying that it was an attack, I'm just saying I wouldn't put it past cheney and his men to pull something like this off.

And to the pretzel defense: Brent Spiner almost died last night from choking on a milk dud at the movie theater. And I don't know about you, but I could certainly see him overheading a plan that complext. Either way, I don't think Bush ever had any real knowledge of what his cabinet did.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

I would say it's one OF the more effective ways. The buildings were huge. It isn't like they could have gone in, blew em up, and just never rebuilt em on their own.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if this had anything to do with Cheney and his crusades of power in the white house while he was 2nd in command.... but that may be the conspiracy theorist in myself

And Malcolm: No. Jet fuel doesn't get that hot. Ever. No matter how much you burn it, or expose more oxygen. It can't melt metal and concrete.

You're right about jet fuel but.......

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength — and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

[Ajax Knucklebones]

So, have you guys seen this?

Now there's hard evidence that every conspiracy theorist knew in years.



How will this be accepted in the world?

So, nano-thermite is made up of pulverised bits of aluminum and rust. Well...That is the loaded gun. What's the chances of finding aluminum and rust in such huge towers that tumbled to the ground? It's got to be near impossible.

[nathanmbailey]

Thank you for explaining the jet fuel thing. I wanted to explain it, but I didn't want to find the specific details.

[Mr Karl]

the only conspiracy is the one that turned the world into a bunch of bleeding hearts..............illuminatea didn't blow up the world trade center, crazy nutjobs from another country did. I just wonder why the states is being so tame about the whole thing...................fuck, just go over there wipe out half the population or so and there's a good chance that you won't get fucked with again. Nice and simple. The real conspiracy is what ever happened to prevent a simple solution like that from happening.

[OliX]

What about building no. 7? Have you actually seen the video and read the journal?

I can't believe some of you are still defending your last administration.

[OliX]

the only conspiracy is the one that turned the world into a bunch of bleeding hearts..............illuminatea didn't blow up the world trade center, crazy nutjobs from another country did. I just wonder why the states is being so tame about the whole thing...................fuck, just go over there wipe out half the population or so and there's a good chance that you won't get fucked with again. Nice and simple. The real conspiracy is what ever happened to prevent a simple solution like that from happening.

Well... if history ever teached us something is that big empires disappear over the night.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

What about building no. 7? Have you actually seen the video and read the journal?

I can't believe some of you are still defending your last administration.

Honestly, Olix, honestly....I just don't think the government could create such destruction on such a large scale, which would have to incorporate soooooo many players, and then not one person speaks. Sooner or later you get someone who has validity, that gets a conscience, and talks to a T.V. news network.....Not just that, but most of the people who actually died in the tower, were from the where the explosions of the planes happened and up. In fact, not one person, where the explosion occurred and up, survived. Even if, say bombs were placed all inside the twin towers, those same people would have died, either way and THAT's what REALLY pissed off Americans. Not that the two big buildings fell, but because of so many deaths. There was no reason to blow up the buildings and make sure they fell. Who could give a crap about the twin towers, or the pentagon. Possibly, possibly, we would have been just as pissed if the Capitol had been blown up...But it didn't. And no one knows for sure if the last plane was, for sure, targeting the capital.

[nathanmbailey]

Alright, alright, I'll talk. It was me. I was the one that hired the terrorists to "hijack" the planes and fly them into buildings. I'm the one that made sure the towers would crumble so that we could go to war. I'm so good, I did this all when I was 14. (To be fair, I turned 15 a few weeks later)

Now I'll probably be arrested as soon as I get off the plane returning from Iraq.

[KessM]

Oh, I'm not denying that it was an attack, I'm just saying I wouldn't put it past cheney and his men to pull something like this off.

And to the pretzel defense: Brent Spiner almost died last night from choking on a milk dud at the movie theater. And I don't know about you, but I could certainly see him overheading a plan that complext. Either way, I don't think Bush ever had any real knowledge of what his cabinet did.

i dont either LOL i think he was a people person to put on as a face and i think he had people smarts but thats about it. it takes a lot to say that much stupid stuff and still have people like your.

bad cabinet i say. bad president too, but super boo on the cabinet

[OliX]

Devil's biggest achievement was to fool people that he doesn't exist.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Devil's biggest achievement was to fool people that he doesn't exist.

Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or else you'll go to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity.... But he loves you!-----George Carlin

[nathanmbailey]

It's 17 actually. Those commandmant things, and then those deadly sin things should probably be added in too.

[Mr Karl]

Well... if history ever teached us something is that big empires disappear over the night.

of course big empires disapear, simple common sense can tell you that, but I wasn't talking about big empires

the way I see it if I was in a position to be a illuminatea who wanted to control the population what I'd do would be much less visible and way more insidious. Sure it could all be possible but why? think about it, there's really nothing to be gained going about things like that(unless your some crazy's in a cave on a mountain on the other side of the world) Building number 7?...........why have a plane flown into it? just hire a demolition company if you need to get rid of it.

bah, conspiracy theory's..............very entertaining, but keep people from seeing the world for the pathetic mess that it really is

[athenahollow]

the way I see it if I was in a position to be a illuminatea who wanted to control the population what I'd do would be much less visible and way more insidious. Sure it could all be possible but why?

Maybe, just maybe, squirrels are to blame. I mean, who knows. LGMs even! It's all aliens!


heh. I love conspiracy theories, and debating them, but luckily, I also am able to step back and realize that most of it is like urban legends: Yes, there probably was a reason behind it being spread; Yes, there is probably a bit of truth in it all, but in the end it's all for the enjoyment of seeing other people squirm as you attempt to reveal to them that their whole belief system can be torn down just as quickly as it was put up...


what can I say, I'm a sadistic cunt when I want to be

[Ajax Knucklebones]

What about building no. 7? Have you actually seen the video and read the journal?

I can't believe some of you are still defending your last administration.

What exactly would be the purpose of intentionally blowing up building 7? It paled in comparison to the twin towers. By the time the first tower came down, building 7 was totally empty. So, even if it was supposed to come down as the first or second building came down, nobody would have been hurt from it. If this is a big part that suppossed to prove it was a conspiracy, it actually becomes the part where I just lose interest altogether of the theory.

[OliX]

Ajax, I didn't used that quote to prove existence of the god and devil for that matter but as a metaphor. Did you knew that US airforce needs maximum of 4 minutes to scramble up jets into air to any airspace over USA?

I'm sorry again, there's this big issue I have where I compare people to me and I think that they think like me. We all do that. And then I don't explain my self fully.

Did you knew that US airforce needs maximum of 4 minutes to scramble up jets into air to any airspace over USA? Airplanes were in the air for more than 1 hour and it was obvious they were hijacked. There's something smelly with the whole 911 thing. I'm not saying freemasons did it to invoke evil energy or something but there's definitely something wrong there. I feel sad for people that died that day, I still remember the day I saw it on news, we were all shocked and sad, I was in Bosnia at that time.

Damn, I feel like I'm arguing with a wall.

Karl, no plain ever hit building 7 but it went down without a single reason. Check the facts. Gain from it is fear. Fear is most powerfull tool to control big masses. Get it? Soon after that laws were implemented that could render all Americans rights to zero if President wanted so. Not to mention laws that went against peoples privacy. Alowing to record all telephone and electronic traffic.

[OliX]

Yeah... big buildings come down just like that.... -.- Go and find a interview with the architect that designed WTC 1 and 2 and hear what they have to say about the plane crash. I'll give you insight. It was designed to handle not just one plain crashing into the building but several. It was state of the art building when it was designed.

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

The problem with conspiracy theories is they obscure the actual events chasing magic dolphins.

I hate to invoke Occam's razor, but the 9-11 turthers make too many unneeded assumptions.

Let's assume for a minute that we know a cabal of powerful men wanted the attack for whatever reason. Which is the best way to go about it?

Secretly fill the twin towers with (apparently) easy to trace micro thermite (a not very efficient way to demolish a building) without anyone noticing. Launch a series of missiles at the twin towers and the pentagon where you have hidden secret stuff. Dispose of any video evidence that conflicts with the official story, which included many amateur photographers. Plant a story about terrorists and arrange for an existing organization to take credit, then invade a country that organization is not active in. Face phonecalls from another plane and pay out millions to families who were "hurt" by the attacks (becuase, according to loose change the bodies were planted.)

Or

Through malice or incompetence, ignore an existing, growing threat to take a mass number of lives.

Now if i were in charge, I would go for plan A, but I am a little dramatic.

I love conspiracy theories is theory but all the energy put into "researching" and "proving" them is really counter productive. The previous administration did enough right out in your face bad that all that energy could have been fighting. Instead, magic dolphins.

As always the Law of 5s applies.

[malcolm]

Brent Spiner almost died last night from choking on a milk dud at the movie theater.

we almost lost data!?!?!?!?!?! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! damn you mars/milkyway company! damn you straight to hell !

[Mr Karl]

of course the architect would say that..................I've come up with a few things in my time too to make people think about other things.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Yeah... big buildings come down just like that.... -.- Go and find a interview with the architect that designed WTC 1 and 2 and hear what they have to say about the plane crash. I'll give you insight. It was designed to handle not just one plain crashing into the building but several. It was state of the art building when it was designed.

Yeah, but I've also heard architect's directly involved with the Twin Towers that said the same thing, EXCEPT, and it's a big except...That they never accounted for a jet plane with a totally full tank of jet fuel when then stated a plane could crash into one of the towers and it'd still be okay.

[OliX]

http://www.examiner.com/x-6495-Natio...account-of-911