gothic kittens? wtf should be done with this woman?

[karyn]

from times leader


Posted: December 18
Updated: Today at 6:57 AM
Pierced kittens removed from home
They were pierced in tail, neck and ear and were to be sold, officials say.

By Edward Lewis elewis@timesleader.com
Staff Writer

ROSS TWP. – Three kittens with ear, neck and tail piercings were removed from a home by humane officers on Wednesday.

[IMG]http://media.timesleader.com/images/300*226/SPCA_Raid_1.1_12-18-2008_479F86N.jpg[/IMG]

Wayne Harvey, SPCA kennel attendant, holds a kitten that was taken from a home in Ross Township on Wednesday.

Don Carey/The Times Leader

One of the officers from the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals of Luzerne County said the pierced kittens were being sold as “gothic kittens” on an Internet auction site.

“This is a first,” said Officer Carol Morrison. “It’s unbelievable anybody would do this to kittens.”

Morrison said the investigation began about a week ago when a man from another state noticed “gothic kittens” being sold on eBay. The kittens were also being sold on a pet classified Web site with an attached picture of a pierced kitten.

“You’re not allowed to sell live animals on eBay,” Morrison said.

The man called the phone number that was listed with the kittens, and traveled to the home at 71 Dobson Road, where he saw the pierced kittens, Morrison said.

“He called us and explained what he saw,” Morrison said.

Morrison and two humane officers obtained a search warrant for the home from District Judge John Hasay in Shickshinny at about 3:30 p.m.

Assisted by the state police at Shickshinny, the humane officers traveled to the home located at the end of a long driveway in a remote area of Ross Township.

Humane officers and troopers were inside the home for more than an hour before removing three kittens and a cat just before 5:30 p.m.

“She (the homeowner) thought it was a great idea (to pierce kittens),” Morrison said.

Morrison said charges are likely to be filed against the homeowner.

A dog inside the home was also found with pierced ears, Morrison said.

Morrison said the homeowner has a pet grooming business in the basement of the residence. Several signs advertising “Pawside Parlor” were along Dobson Road and in front of the home.

The kittens also had submission rings placed in their tails, Morrison said, explaining that the rings would prevent blood flow, causing the tails to fall off.

The homeowner and a young girl were inside the home. After humane officers removed the kittens in cages, the window shades were closed and interior lights were turned off.

Morrison said the kittens will be checked by a veterinarian before deciding if the kittens will be placed for adoption.

[Velvet-Tongue]

....: |||||||

I could, maybe see an ear piercing for your cat. But neck and tail? ouch.

[soma_stardust]

D:
that is so many kinds of wrong!
T___T
poor kitties.
i'm all for photoshopping a kitty to look goth, that's kinda cute and doesn't hurt anybody but... jesus christ, the things people do to animals is horrid.
oh and i think she should be forcibly pierced in very uncomfortable places, repeatedly.

[Raza]

If she was a skilled pierced and did it with human safety standards, I don't see what the big deal is, to be honest. It's nothing we don't do to ourselves and a fucklot less than some perfectly legal medical or owner-conveniencing procedures for animals.

Besides, cats have a lot of insensitive loose neck skin. I don't know the anatomy of the tail well enough to judge, but the two points I do understand are nothing to condemn her on.

Methinks this mostly outrages people because it's unusual and associated with what's a stigmatised social phenominon among humans. It doesn't even begin to approximate something like declawing.

[OliX]

Wait until she starts with scarification.

[VoldtaEngler]

If she was a skilled pierced and did it with human safety standards,

Human standards..are not animal standards. Such as cat's can't eat chocolate or potatoes...as they will get sick and die.

I don't see what the big deal is, to be honest. It's nothing we don't do to ourselves

Um maybe because we can speak our opinions and can say if we want to be peirced or not? Animals can't say "OH SHIT PLEASE DONT PUT ME IN THAT GUYS ASS!"

Besides, cats have a lot of insensitive loose neck skin.

Actually, according to my vet book, a cat's neck has a ton of nerves in it so when you grab one by the scruff, it pinches those nerves and they become semi-paralyzed.

Methinks this mostly outrages people because it's unusual and associated with what's a stigmatised social phenominon among humans. It doesn't even begin to approximate something like declawing.

I agree with that. Declawing is one of the worst things in my opinion you can do to a cat. It's basically chopping off a finger at the knuckle.

[Raza]

On something furry?

'Worst' I see happening is a bright dye job that might turn out somewhat unhealthy as the cat tries to lick herself clean.

[Raza]

Human standards..are not animal standards. Such as cat's can't eat chocolate or potatoes...as they will get sick and die.

Apples and oranges; chocolate may harm cats (wasn't that dogs?) more due to concrete biological differences, but there's no evidence that I know of showing that skin damage is more dangerous or painful to them. Your argument proves that a different standard is possible, but doesn't argue why it needs to be applied in this particular case.

Um maybe because we can speak our opinions and can say if we want to be peirced or not? Animals can't say "OH SHIT PLEASE DONT PUT ME IN THAT GUYS ASS!"

I personally agree that consent is pretty much the only factor worth noting in things like these, but only the most extreme of animal rights proponents look for it in 'pets'. The lack of it definitely doesn't make this animal abuse by contemporary western standards and explain the popular outrage here, even if it factors in in far rarer, more sensible ethical models.

Actually, according to my vet book, a cat's neck has a ton of nerves in it so when you grab one by the scruff, it pinches those nerves and they become semi-paralyzed.

A mechanism used by mother cats to carry their young around easily, so it makes no evolutionary sense for it to be very painful, or even damage easily as cats have sharp, unretractable teeth. Different kind of nerves, I'd venture a guess.

I agree with that. Declawing is one of the worst things in my opinion you can do to a cat. It's basically chopping off a finger at the knuckle.

Pretty much, yeah. And while that doesn't make this piercing thing right if it isn't otherwise, it does mean that anyone getting their panties in a bunch about it while not concerning themselves far more with declawing (such as the law) is just in it for a cheap populistic selfrighteousness rush.

[Jax]

That is just sad and horrible.

While cats dont have all that many nerves in their neck, it would still be extremely painful. Dogs/cats/humans all have very sensitive necks.

Voldta, I cant say with certainty that I am disagreeing with you, but after doing rescue work and working with many vets, scruffing is actually a behavioral instinct. It is used as a means for transport and as for discipline. Some of the vets I worked with said that scruffing releases endorphines, so there may be some validity in what you say...Oddly enough, Ive scruffed many cats as a groomer, but never really looked into why it works. Thanks for giving me something to do tomorrow on my day off, haha.

There are many safe hair dyes for pets.

[Vexbeast]

Ouch! Right in the faith-in-humanity-points...

She needs to be slapped SO bloody hard... -__-

[OliX]

Yeah, chocolate is dangerous for cats.
And there is a nerve that semi paralyzes cats when pinched. I don't know if it hurts but I know that cats have a higher pain tolerance than us.

[Raza]

That's another thing I was thinking. Cats hurt themselves all the time, in ways I'd be far more worried about subjecting myself to than skin piercings.


It's really not like I'm not sympathetic towards cats; I love them, and am fairly generous in respecting 'rights' in them that most of today's world doesn't. But I also think that people are often far too quick to put the moral indignation on one another, without thinking the situation through beyond the superficial.

[Jax]

Yeah, chocolate is dangerous for cats.
And there is a nerve that semi paralyzes cats when pinched. I don't know if it hurts but I know that cats have a higher pain tolerance than us.

Can you site a source on this information?

[OliX]

After the tail suspension part I think I reached "beyond the superficial".

[OliX]

Can you site a source on this information?

Chocolate and nerve is a common knowledge. I don't know when and where I heard/read about it.

About the pain tolerance. That's from experience.

[Raza]

After the tail suspension part I think I reached "beyond the superficial".

Submission rings, you mean? I don't see anything about suspension.

Frankly, I don't know what a 'submission ring' is, how to imagine one being applied to a kitten's tail, and whether the assumption that it would be there long enough/have enough impact to cause the tail to die off is at all reasonable. I rather doubt you do, if you thought they were talking about something else entirely.

Reading the article is 'superficial'. You don't get past that by mentioning something exceptionally outrageous, only by actually understanding what's being talked about, drawing your own informed conclusions and applying them to your personal ethical ideals. People rarely get even halfway there before they add their voices to the angry mob.

[VoldtaEngler]

Chocolate & Cats:
http://www.peteducation.com/article....0+1783&aid=242
http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/nutr...latetoxici.htm

Scruffing:
http://www.pets.ca/articles/article_scruffing.htm

I guess I should have been more specific.. that yes of course it's a natural instinct with mothers, but people shouldn't scruff their cats when they get older because it's a lot of weight that needs to be supported, so its a bit more uncomfortable for adult cats than kittens.

There are safe ways to scruff a adult cat so it can support all the weight

[Jax]

I know chocolate is toxic to cats and dogs.

Id like sourced information on a nerve that semi paralyzes a cat when pinched because so far, the only thing Im seeing is about a nerve on the lower part of the neck...

[Jax]

Submission rings, you mean? I don't see anything about suspension.

Frankly, I don't know what a 'submission ring' is, how to imagine one being applied to a kitten's tail, and whether the assumption that it would be there long enough/have enough impact to cause the tail to die off is at all reasonable. I rather doubt you do, if you thought they were talking about something else entirely.

Reading the article is 'superficial'. You don't get past that by mentioning something exceptionally outrageous, only by actually understanding what's being talked about, drawing your own informed conclusions and applying them to your personal ethical ideals. People rarely get even halfway there before they add their voices to the angry mob.

I actually agree with you;] And by submission ring, Im assuming they are talking about a CBR.

[Raza]

Personally, the few occasions where people have tried to explain to me why cats go limb when grabbed by their neck skin, it's always been about instinct and a mental reaction rather than a physical one. Mind, I don't necessarily consider them particularly well informed sources.

[Jax]

Chocolate & Cats:
http://www.peteducation.com/article....0+1783&aid=242
http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/nutr...latetoxici.htm

Scruffing:
http://www.pets.ca/articles/article_scruffing.htm

I guess I should have been more specific.. that yes of course it's a natural instinct with mothers, but people shouldn't scruff their cats when they get older because it's a lot of weight that needs to be supported, so its a bit more uncomfortable for adult cats than kittens.

There are safe ways to scruff a adult cat so it can support all the weight

Ive never had to pick up a cats full weight by scruffing...usually their back end and the tips of their front paws are safe on the table;]

But its common sense that it would hurt a full grown cat if you picked it up by only scruffing and not supporting the body weight, haha.

[OliX]

Submission rings, you mean? I don't see anything about suspension.

Frankly, I don't know what a 'submission ring' is, how to imagine one being applied to a kitten's tail, and whether the assumption that it would be there long enough/have enough impact to cause the tail to die off is at all reasonable. I rather doubt you do, if you thought they were talking about something else entirely.

Reading the article is 'superficial'. You don't get past that by mentioning something exceptionally outrageous, only by actually understanding what's being talked about, drawing your own informed conclusions and applying them to your personal ethical ideals. People rarely get even halfway there before they add their voices to the angry mob.

My wrong. I meant submission. Apparently it's tight enough to prevent the blood flow so that speaks for it self. Piercings somehow I could swallow but that part was enough.

I think I "actually understand what's being talked about".

You might have a wrong image of me.

[OliX]

Personally, the few occasions where people have tried to explain to me why cats go limb when grabbed by their neck skin, it's always been about instinct and a mental reaction rather than a physical one. Mind, I don't necessarily consider them particularly well informed sources.

Mental reaction involves nerves. Figure out else on your own, you're smart enough.

[VoldtaEngler]

I was giving the chocolate links to Raza. I know you know! :P

And I am honestly mistaken about the nerves. I misread two sentences in my book about the scruff, where in actuality it's more muscle than nerves, and that a cat goes limp because of natural instinct. My mistake, I apologize

[Raza]

My wrong. I meant submission. Apparently it's tight enough to prevent the blood flow so that speaks for it self. Piercings somehow I could swallow but that part was enough.

I think I "actually understand what's being talked about".

Do you? Cause I don't. I can read the article and see that 'officer Morrison', whose qualifications for speaking on mostly untried kitten piercing practises remain unspecified but whose involvement in the confiscation and partiality in the case as a whole are first hand, thinks they would 'cause the tail to fall off' - but I don't personally know jack shit about it all.

This might be true, but if there isn't at least half a dozen intellectual alarm bells going off about just accepting this nugget of self-vindicating wisdom without further verification, you're not a very critical reader.

Mental reaction involves nerves. Figure out else on your own, you're smart enough.

Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing now? Cause that's usually my part.

[Raza]

I was giving the chocolate links to Raza. I know you know! :P

Thanks! I see it's dogs and cats, which explains my confusion. Good to know.

And I am honestly mistaken about the nerves. I misread two sentences in my book about the scruff, where in actuality it's more muscle than nerves, and that a cat goes limp because of natural instinct. My mistake, I apologize

So, verdict? It's plain skin over muscle that's relatively used to being manhandled?

[OliX]

Gotta catch up to you or fight fire with fire or.... whatever.
I usually avoid arguing and for the tail part... just use your logic dude. I don't even wanna argue about that. It's so obvious it's even lame to think otherwise.

[Raza]

It's about as obvious as the conclusion that wearing a bracelet would cause your hand to fall of. It's something that might make sense, but you're leaving arbitrary values that make all the difference between harmlessness and major damage completely undefined.

[Jax]

My wrong. I meant submission. Apparently it's tight enough to prevent the blood flow so that speaks for it self. Piercings somehow I could swallow but that part was enough.

I think I "actually understand what's being talked about".

You might have a wrong image of me.

They are talking about a piercing. At least that is my logical conclusion. Ive never heard of a submission ring, especially anything small enough to fit around a kittens tail.

Most likely conclusion is some ignoramous is talking about a CBR. A CBR would have to be pierced through the tail. And I highly doubt a 14-12 g piercing would cut off blood supply, otherwise the kittens would have already lost their tails.

While I dont condone what this lady did...I really hate bad reporting. Fuck the media.

[OliX]

Hey! It's written in news. You gotta believe it.

The kittens also had submission rings placed in their tails, Morrison said, explaining that the rings would prevent blood flow, causing the tails to fall off.

See. I told you.

[Jax]

I was giving the chocolate links to Raza. I know you know! :P

And I am honestly mistaken about the nerves. I misread two sentences in my book about the scruff, where in actuality it's more muscle than nerves, and that a cat goes limp because of natural instinct. My mistake, I apologize

Thats ok! You gave me some good reading anyways;] Though that doesnt excuse what this lady did at all! The neck is still very sensitive on cats dogs and humans!

[Chiqadee]

I am sorry but I think that is crazy. My pets are like my children. Cats can't make the decision to get peirced. Just like children can't. I also disagree with parents that pierce thier childrens ears when they are babies. Shouldn't you let the child grow up and make that decision?
Would you let your 5yr old child get peicings from the 15 yr old down the street? Or go to a professional? There are a few things wrong with this. It doesn't sound like this girl had the education to know how this will effect the kittens short or long term. She wasn't a vet.
And here in this small midwest town I am in, no vets here will declaw a cat. It is considered inhumane. Shit...I can't even find a pet grooming place that will bathe my dog because of his fear of water. The vet has to bathe him or I have too.

Also, I did a google search on this article and came across this website with some pictures of the kittens. Kitten doesn't look thrilled.

http://www.petclassifieds.us/i/111205/i.html

[OliX]

They are talking about a piercing. At least that is my logical conclusion. Ive never heard of a submission ring, especially anything small enough to fit around a kittens tail.

Most likely conclusion is some ignoramous is talking about a CBR. A CBR would have to be pierced through the tail. And I highly doubt a 14-12 g piercing would cut off blood supply, otherwise the kittens would have already lost their tails.

While I dont condone what this lady did...I really hate bad reporting. Fuck the media.

I imagined some sort of strap to tight it so much that it would cut the blood flow out. Nothing else I can think of now can cut of a blood flow. Well, maybe an axe.

Snarley Monster is a 3 month old, floppy eared, lovable kitten with a docked tail, 14 guage ear piercing, 14 guage submission ring (on the back of neck). snarley monster comes with 14 guage jewlery and silk submission lead to clip on neck ring question call 570 477 1524 taking best offer OVER 400.00

Here you go.... I guess reporter misunderstood what a submission ring is.

[VoldtaEngler]

So, verdict? It's plain skin over muscle that's relatively used to being manhandled?

Verdict is im guilty of not reading correctly before posting my big mouth :P

But yea, it's mostly muscle and a few nerves. But nothing that is pinched or makes one semi paralyzed like I stated earlier, so disregard that incorrect info!

It's what I get for trying to read small text in a dark room, and mashing up two things into one.

[Raza]

Those jewels look rather too heavy for their purpose, but I'm not going to even start trying to read anything into a cat's facial expressions.

[VoldtaEngler]

Also, I did a google search on this article and came across this website with some pictures of the kittens. Kitten doesn't look thrilled.

http://www.petclassifieds.us/i/111205/i.html

That's seriously fucked. Although I wonder how many calls that phone is getting right now.

[Chiqadee]

I can read my cats pretty good. Sharp claws to the ankles make you start to pay close attention to thier moods and expresions. My dogs are MUCH easier to read!

[OliX]

One angry call from Jax would be enough

[Raza]

Verdict is im guilty of not reading correctly before posting my big mouth :P

If it's a comfort, I hadn't even got to the 'submission rings' part of the article before deciding to lend some counterweight to what seemed like an overly one-sided reception.

I usually just kinda bluff my way through these discussions, adapting my stance as facts turn up and relying on fancy talking abilities to not look like a fool. I'd be satisfied turning out wrong if I'd argued an inpopular position to the best of my ability.

[Jax]

I am sorry but I think that is crazy. My pets are like my children. Cats can't make the decision to get peirced. Just like children can't. I also disagree with parents that pierce thier childrens ears when they are babies. Shouldn't you let the child grow up and make that decision?
Would you let your 5yr old child get peicings from the 15 yr old down the street? Or go to a professional? There are a few things wrong with this. It doesn't sound like this girl had the education to know how this will effect the kittens short or long term. She wasn't a vet.
And here in this small midwest town I am in, no vets here will declaw a cat. It is considered inhumane. Shit...I can't even find a pet grooming place that will bathe my dog because of his fear of water. The vet has to bathe him or I have too.

Also, I did a google search on this article and came across this website with some pictures of the kittens. Kitten doesn't look thrilled.

http://www.petclassifieds.us/i/111205/i.html

LOL! Those are horseshoes. Never heard of them being referred to "submission" piercings, and most horseshoes have a gap that you wouldnt be able to clip anything to... Idiots.

Id bathe your dog. If I was still grooming. Ive had people video tape me grooming their pet that had issues. Patience and an understanding of the animal is all thats needed.

No wonder the cat has a cartilage problem. Those banana barbells are way too heavy for the ears.

Id like to pierce that chicks eyeballs.