Is is better to be good or accomplished?

[Amelia G]

Would you be willing to do things you felt were wrong to accomplish your goals? At the end of the day, would you prefer to be proudest of your character or proudest of your accomplishments?

[Raza]

I set my goals primarily for the effect the process will have on me, not the metaphorical chest of gold at the end of the rainbow. If I'm doing something I have to want to do it, and going the distance should leave me a more interesting person for the experience moreso than for my standing somewhere else at the end of the ordeal.

So, character. Accomplishments that don't apply back onto me somehow are kindof useless.

[Velvet-Tongue]

Good. If getting an awesome accomplishment means your integrity is in the shitter why even care?

[Buster Friendly]

Everybody has limits, but I'd rather get my shit done than hold on to some illusion of what a great guy I am.

Not "collaborating with nazis" scale compromise, but there are things I'm totally willing to give up on to get what I want. Some of the most awesome things in my life have come about from my being willing to get over some self important sense of righteousness. I am a way the fuck cooler person than my 14 year old self could have imagined, even if I am friends with christians, and don't punch them in the mouth everytime they say "I'll pray for you."

Cutting my hair, and not dressing up in clown make up everyday seemed like a big fucking deal, giving up my mohawk, and all that... Now I wonder what my huge attachment was. A fucking hair style? Yeah, way to fight the man.

On the other hand, I've had plenty of opportunities to sell out in ways that I wasn't interested in, to people that had very little of value to offer me, and who I didn't like in the first place... I have no regrets about telling them to eat a sack of hickory smoked horse buttholes.

Am I entirely comfortable with screwing republican bitches, or hippie vegan chicks?

No, not really. Some part of me feels that they don't deserve orgasms. But then again I'd have had a hell of alot less of teh sechs if I'd waited around for girls who perfectly matched my every criterion.

[Raza]

Cutting my hair, and not dressing up in clown make up everyday seemed like a big fucking deal, giving up my mohawk, and all that... Now I wonder what my huge attachment was. A fucking hair style? Yeah, way to fight the man.

Here's a question, though. If your hairstyle wasn't bothering the abstract spirit bourgeoisie that constitutes 'the man', how did you derive any benefit from getting rid of it?

Obviously, something like a haircut, body mod or article of clothing has no inherent 'non-conformity' to it. It's the people that in various ways respond to it negatively - even if it's just by viewing you as childish, because that's how rebelliousness is contained today, by equating it with a stage of human growth which suggests that it must be eventually relinguished to grow as a person - that give it an 'edge' by implication of their agonised reactions.

Maybe wearing a mohawk off and by itself doesn't do much to hinder the collective weight of assorted social norms, mores, restrictions and prescriptions that create the vicious cycles of unoriginality and intimidation defining mainstream culture - although it certainly does something every time someone sees you with it - but keeping it throughout a successful and satisfying life and thereby falsifying the presumption that such symbols of rebellion must be discarded before you'll get 'somewhere' in life certainly would weaken their believability in all those that noticed it.

Rebellion requires doing the unexpected. Mohawks have been acknowledged and rationalized away by the established order, provided they are observed within the confines of a specific demographic of disillusioned youth, and within that context are no longer very unexpected and consequently not very effective at expressing anything but your reluctant cooperation with their model. All you'd have to do for a mohawk to register again, though, is to take it out of that select context within which it can be comfortably rationalized. And yet by getting rid of it to get ahead, you did the exact opposite of that, taking their after-the-fact rationalization and applying to your life for fear that it would prove right - while in fact the only thing giving it any such power is our collective readiness to believe in it.

So yeah, growing a mohawk only to get rid of it to secure bourgeois respectability probably didn't so much fight 'the man' as empower him. Still, you've got whatever forms of rebellion you've maintained to contrast the presumed ineffectiveness of your mohawk with here today, no? That must be worth something.

[TheDeathKnight]

It depends what it is.

If you want me to kill people or destroy the environment, in order to make some money, then no, I'd rather be ethical and proud of my decisions.

But if it's just a matter of being ruthless in business, that's fine with me.
I prefer to be honest and straightforward, and I will do so if possible.
But I will bend the rules a bit if there is enough profit to be made...

[Buster Friendly]

Here's a question, though. If your hairstyle wasn't bothering the abstract spirit bourgeoisie that constitutes 'the man', how did you derive any benefit from getting rid of it?

blahblahblah (but in a good way Raza)

So yeah, growing a mohawk only to get rid of it to secure bourgeois respectability probably didn't so much fight 'the man' as empower him. Still, you've got whatever forms of rebellion you've maintained to contrast the presumed ineffectiveness of your mohawk with here today, no? That must be worth something.

The mohawk was just a hair style I really liked, it wasn't a form of rebellion. I just really liked the hair style.

Now, would I lose my nice union job that gives me the free time to pursue my subversive interests, and pays me enough to live, if I had the mohawk?

Sadly, yes.

The trade off though is that I don't couch surf, and scrounge for my meals any more though.

That's not really one of my life's big compromises there were bigger more important ones.

[TheDeathKnight]

I did the same thing in my early career.

I cut my hair, wore more normal clothes, in order to get ahead.

Once I got established in my industry, and had a good reputation,
then I could do what I wanted with my appearance...

I don't consider that a huge ethical compromise or anything. It's just a fact of life. Some people don't like certain things, or have concerns about them. That's understandable. So I'd rather put them at ease, and let them see that I am responsible and talented, and THEN switch things up on them...

I often ask people if they were the ones doing the hiring, for an accounting position at their company, would they hire someone who looked like a homeless person? Or someone who dressed like a gang-banger? Or who had racist clothes and tats? You might be open-minded, but you are still going to have some concerns about those people, even though they *might* be totally cool and responsible. So people have the same "concerns" about people with tats, piercings, etc. So it's better to keep that stuff low-key until you get in the door and get established somewhere...

[Alliecat]

If your character is good, and your accomplishments are good (good meaning: Not hurting anyone, not destroying anything, not denying someone basic rights, etc)
can't they be related? You are a good person, and accomplished good things.
If you are a bad person, I don't see how you can accomplish something good and not have it reflect your character.

[Raza]

The mohawk was just a hair style I really liked, it wasn't a form of rebellion. I just really liked the hair style.

I suppose that just about renders my rant redundant.

Mohawks are a nice hairstyle, but I'm not sure I could seperate them entirely from their 'message'. Not that I'd want to; as far as I'm concerned it's just great synergy.

[Aza]

I AM good, hence I will someday be (or, arguably, already am) accomplished. People spend their entire lives trying to achieve my level of life experience, come to think of it.

But of course, "good" and "accomplished" are both relative terms.

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Character....ALWAYS. I'll never be rich, but I'll always know I stayed true to myself.

"He who dies with the most toys is dead. Who fuckin' cares?"

[Mr Karl]

hm............my character is made up of my accomplishments, so I don't know

doing 'wrong' things won't really accomplish much of value for me

[LaurenWK]

Would you be willing to do things you felt were wrong to accomplish your goals? At the end of the day, would you prefer to be proudest of your character or proudest of your accomplishments?

Character, for sure. I think some of our accomplishments can contribute to who we are, though.... In the end, it all says something our character.

Who I am is what makes me happy with myself, at the end of the day.

[One Eyed Cat]

Accomplished will always be accompanied by accusations of being bad. I think you just have to follow your heart, principles, and instinct (and take into account your own fallibility). Best I can answer that.

OEC

[HolyBat]

+100

[Aza]

+100

What in the name of almighty fuck does this even MEAN?!?

This was the last, or second-to-last, post to hit that "SG Lawsuit" thread before it disappeared entirely from the boards. Is this thread next to go or something?

[NipelHOD]

+1

[Raza]

They're just bots, promoting URLs hidden away in their profiles. No black helicopter moderation conspiracy, AFAIA.

[BolUN]

+1

[malcolm]

I suppose that just about renders my rant redundant.

Mohawks are a nice hairstyle, but I'm not sure I could seperate them entirely from their 'message'. Not that I'd want to; as far as I'm concerned it's just great synergy.

if you do em right lol. i learned the hard way back when i was 24 that you have to have a gfood base width in order to keep em nice and erect without alot of product..

[nathanmbailey]

I've got no problem doing something a bit on the shady side to get what needs to be done done. There's a lot of stuff I do at work that I would be in trouble if my superiors found out, but I get the mission done and done right so that pilots can fly and get people somewhere or get people the shit they need. I think it mostly depends on what the "accomplishment" is. If it's getting something done and you have to go outside the "good" aspect is it bad if the overall result is still good?

Good and bad are just ethics and that's just an opinion. Would I do something extreme to get something else, no, but I'm not possessive like that, hell I can pack everything I own into a few dufflebags. My reputation of getting shit done well and in a timely manner is my accomplishment, and I've done some shady maintenance to get such things done. Everyone's still alive and life goes on.

[NolUUn]

interesting discussion!

[Dusk]

I would rather earn my accomplishments by being good, wich is why I stick to the 'no contact' sparring rules in tournaments even if my opponents dont.

[NolUUn]

topic close?

[VoltaireBlue]

If your character is good, and your accomplishments are good (good meaning: Not hurting anyone, not destroying anything, not denying someone basic rights, etc)
can't they be related? You are a good person, and accomplished good things.
If you are a bad person, I don't see how you can accomplish something good and not have it reflect your character.

I kinda agree with this.

[inox]

I have no pretensions about being "good"; I'd be an antihero at best. What matters to me is that I'm true to my nature, and that I accomplish the things that I desire.

[FedorasBox]

Good. If getting an awesome accomplishment means your integrity is in the shitter why even care?

+1. what kind of a goal requires you to compromise your values?