my father is mad again

[LoraLie]

guess thats what put this on my mind. but i wondered & felt like sharing


growing up where i have, whipping your child no matter what the age has never been looked down apon
so to this day when my father & i have a squable, it normally ends up with me getting hit. i wont lie it has died down a lot lately (thanks to my mother) but the last time it happened we pretty much fought & i had 4 or 5 bruises on my legs & a few on my arms. he ended up with one on his toe from a candle i threw at him though. but um a 110 pound girl charging a man double her size = girl being thrown into things heh

its something that has really struck me. like today he came through the house holding this little play whip i have & he hit it at a door just playing with me when i came out of my room & i got scared. i thought he was coming at me with a belt.

so what is your veiw on hitting children when they are acting up.

[YoungSoulRebel]

Umm.. what the fuck? That's seriously messed up.

I generally have no problem with giving, say, an eight-year-old a single swift spanking on the posterier when they're acting incourigable, or say a noticable enough smack on a two-year-old's knuckles when they're reaching for something dangerous, but what you're describing is REALLY messed up. My own father and I got in frequent and sometimes dailty fist-fights, so it's not like I'm some pampered kid who thinks s/he has/had it "so rough" telling you your situation is fucked up. Seriously, that's fucked up.

[Jax]

I know many will disagree with me, but here it is.

Sometimes I believe a firm spanking is in order for smaller children who act up. Im not talking about whipping them with belts, or taking a bat after them or anything, but I think that it should be used in certain cases as a punishment. I also believe strongly in positive reinforcement, and feel that both are necessary to teach children that some behaviors are acceptable and some are very unacceptable.

I also believe that it gets past the point where it does any good, like with a preteen or teenager. They are mentally developed enough to know the difference between right and wrong, and anger should not be taken out EVER with those actions.

I know this is vague, and Im speaking generally, but its the sum of what is MHO.

[VoldtaEngler]

My mother before retiring worked as a CPS (child protective services) social worker. She raised me to frown upon that sort of thing..and yea it's wrong of course.
She would show me photos of her cases of little babies with bloody faces and broken limbs, cracked out mothers and fathers and even siblings.

Its something thats always going on, but you never hear much about it. Its almost heart breaking to hear it..but even more gut wrenching to see pictures of 3 year olds with broken beer bottle bruises and cuts.

strict disipline and firm voice will do the job in my opinion..

[LoraLie]

i understand that for a certain age range that a little spanking isnt so bad.

but yeah, i hid out at my friends house last time. cause he only comes after me when he knows he can get away w ith it. my brother normally comes in & stops him but that particular time my brother was gone.

i'm 18 so i really dont think i need a spanking anymore. but in my parents eyes i am still a 12 year old. because i live under their roof. i follow their rules. if i dont. i get punished. & sometimes it ends in a beating

i know i dont have it that bad. thats why i am still here. if it were really fucked up i am pretty sure i wouldnt be.

but its made me where i never want to hit my child, IF i ever have one

my exboyfriend & i discussed this too. he believes that its okay to hit a teenage boy but not a girl.
i dont agree with that. but eh his opinion

[YoungSoulRebel]

My mother before retiring worked as a CPS (child protective services) social worker. She raised me to frown upon that sort of thing..and yea it's wrong of course.
She would show me photos of her cases of little babies with bloody faces and broken limbs, cracked out mothers and fathers and even siblings.

Its something thats always going on, but you never hear much about it. Its almost heart breaking to hear it..but even more gut wrenching to see pictures of 3 year olds with broken beer bottle bruises and cuts.

strict disipline and firm voice will do the job in my opinion..

I dunno, to a certain degree, I think it depends on the kid as well as the parents on whether or not the "strict discipline and firm voice [without a spanking, presumably]" is effective enough discipline.

Yeah, if you're giving a four-year-old a swift smack to the ass for pushing his two-year-old sister off the couch, there's such a thing as too much force, but I don't think it gets across the point that "hitting people hurts them" if you just waggle your finger and say "No! That's bad!"

Yeah, I'm speaking purely in hypotheticals here, but it's like if you have a large dog who won't humping your guests when they come over and sit on your couch. Just pushing the dog off gently and waggling your finger and saying "No! Bad!" isn't going to work on an especially obstinant dog. Sometimes you just have to get up and dominance-hump the dog to get the point across in the discipline process.

[Buster Friendly]

my father didn't spare the rod, and i grew up obessed with violence, just living for the day when i could take him out... (he's an ex-special forces type, so that's not exactly easy.)

what a stupid fucked up way to live my life.

now that he can't whip up on me, he can always belittle my lack of career skills, unfinished college degree, failed relationships... LOL...

i spent alot of time being a real mean motherfucker/ultraviolent asshole... waste fo my time.

next!!

[killerkat]

i never got any of that...

my mom was a burntout hippy biker,and when i eventually moved in with my dad he was such a fucking yuppy to a 'T,all i wanted was for us to just go outside and duke it out...

i got some nasty beatdowns from my brother who was put on to do it from my mom a few times...

i think there's a time and a place for that kinda thing....but in general i'm not really for it,unless it's warented without a shadow of a doubt...

[YoungSoulRebel]

i understand that for a certain age range that a little spanking isnt so bad.

but yeah, i hid out at my friends house last time. cause he only comes after me when he knows he can get away w ith it. my brother normally comes in & stops him but that particular time my brother was gone.

i'm 18 so i really dont think i need a spanking anymore. but in my parents eyes i am still a 12 year old. because i live under their roof. i follow their rules. if i dont. i get punished. & sometimes it ends in a beating

i know i dont have it that bad. thats why i am still here. if it were really fucked up i am pretty sure i wouldnt be.

but its made me where i never want to hit my child, IF i ever have one

my exboyfriend & i discussed this too. he believes that its okay to hit a teenage boy but not a girl.
i dont agree with that. but eh his opinion

If you're eighteen, move out and bring up assault charges. Especially if you've got bruises.

And you're wrong, your situation is REALLY fucked up if that jack-ass thinks beating an 18-year-old girl half his size is OK and that dip-shit mother of yours agrees.

No offense, but if your parents think that's any way to treat an adult, product of their groins or not, that's what I'm going to call them, plain and simple. Stupid is as stupid does, and all that. And based on what you're telling me, I see no evidence that they're anything but.

[killerkat]

i know this is an odd time...but how about an introduction,amigo?

[LoraLie]

my mother *hates* it.
they fight about it a lot. they used to fight about it even worse cause it was an every night thing for awhile

he's laid off a lot in the past few years. just when he's had a bad day or something has set him off (especially when he has seen my grandfather, & that is a whole nother story right there heh) . . . . then if i even breath wrong it ends in us screaming at each other & eventually hitting.

i will be out soon. but i'm on my last year in high school & i have no job or car or anything so moving out is the worse option for me.

i'm sort of kind of stuck.

[killerkat]

well...you shouldn't take extreme measure without extreame causes or whatever..but is such causes are abound...all three of those reasons aren't 'keeping you there'...you can take off..and you can be succecfull...you just got to have the balls,a bit of knowhow...some more balls...and alot of connections helps...


some aren't as adapt for living in that kinda situation though...one side you have the conforts of home...and the other you have freedom...but it comes tuff..and you gotta work your ass off to keep it...


just some rambling...

[YoungSoulRebel]

my mother *hates* it.
they fight about it a lot. they used to fight about it even worse cause it was an every night thing for awhile

he's laid off a lot in the past few years. just when he's had a bad day or something has set him off (especially when he has seen my grandfather, & that is a whole nother story right there heh) . . . . then if i even breath wrong it ends in us screaming at each other & eventually hitting.

i will be out soon. but i'm on my last year in high school & i have no job or car or anything so moving out is the worse option for me.

i'm sort of kind of stuck.

You don't have any friends at school whose parents would be understanding?

During the last few months I was in high school, I stayed at my boyfriend's house (on his parents' approval, but I had to sleep in his sister's room), cos his parents were TOTALLY understanding and they both had a father like mine.

At least your mom knows it's wrong, but that really doesn't excuse HIS actions. I mean, seriously, having teenagers is supposed to be like having a free housekeeping service, not free time with the punching bag at the gym. At least that's what Gabe's parents told me when I moved in (well, that and I was a better cook than his mom).

[Amelia G]

Yeah, you are way too old for that. If he can't explain why you should do something his way, then he needs to think about whether he is right. And every night is just messed up, not matter what the age is.

My parents spanked me once. I pushed my smaller brother. They spanked me to demonstrate why it was wrong to beat on someone smaller than myself. I never ever did it again.

[Sara X]

my view on hitting children when they act up? sometimes, yeah, i think they deserve it, in instances such as what amelia said. out of anger? no. with a belt? no. being punched, slapped, twisting limbs? no. been there done that. got the fuck out.

you said you are from a small town, so i wouldn't recommend reporting it or anything... i WOULD say don't just talk about it. do something. where there's a will, there's a way. if you're 18, you're a big girl and you should be able to handle yourself. i was in the same situation (though not quite so bad, less than a year before i moved out my father and i got into our last violent disagreement... HE violently disagreed with ME) yet still i magically managed to get out of my town without first having a car or a job or anything.

so, i don't mean to be a bitch or any of that but um, why are you online on a forum and not trying to scheme a way out of there? you said you had problems in your school? get your GED and move on. join jobcorp or something? i went into exotic dancing, but you have to have a really thick skin (read here: father with belt is training wheels compared to some of the people you come across) to do that, even in tamer clubs. you obviously know that what is going on isn't right. fix it. xoxo.

[Morning Glory]

first of all a persons body is thier own and no one elses. you don't have the right to touch them without their consent and not at all in a way that hurts them, with the expection of self defense. It doesn't matter if your'e one or one hundred. Just like a persons body belongs to them, so does everything else about them.

If you are a parent you have certain obligations to take care of your children, because they are incapable of taking care of themselves to a certain point. If you are a child, or an adult, or anyone else, you don't have any obligations to anyone else, other than to respect them as a person. You don't own your kids, they aren't object, they're people. They don't have to do what you say or look or think the way you want them to, just because you say so.

If your child "acts up" than it's your fault as a parent. it's because they have a need and they can't fulfill it themself, and they are looking to you to fulfill it as you should be. If they have unreasonable wants that they think are needs, then it's your failure as a parent because they learend them from you.

Just because they are unable to do certain things for themselves, doesn't mean that thier thinking is wrong and yours is right. Whatever a person thinks, wants and feels is right for them. Whether they are one or one hundred. What you might consider to be childish is important to a child, and they probably think all the "mature" shit that you find to be so important is just as stupid and pointless.

[Mirren]

Instilling fear with violence works.. yeah usually. Is it right in my eyes? No. I got spanked a few times on my ass as a small child, never beat on. You should not be being spanked or whipped. I did have a friend who was still getting her ass whipped at 16, 17.. by her step-father, I thought it was disgusting. I bet your Dad got his ass whipped and worse, unfortunatley the cycle doesn't usually stop with. Not making excuses for him, believe me, there comes a time when you have to accept what has happened to you in your life and deal with it. Not lash out at others. I was a Nanny for years with many families when I was in my 20's, you didn't see them getting beat.. it's about uneducated people and poverty most of the time.Poverty breeds some fucked up individuals. I don't know about your case obviously but I know what I have seen.

[vulfgrl]

I got spanked until middle school. Spare the rod and spoil the child, right? I don't like to spank my girls. My ex husband decided it was the easiest thing to do, so he's very physical and yells at them. So now they're having all kinds of anger and problems, and I'm working on that. Children understand communication best. You explain things to them, and usually they're going to get it. If they're throwing a fit, you ignore if possible or remove them from the situation. I don't think spanking instills respect. You want them to learn out of understanding, not fear of pain.
My good friend is now 18 and was beaten by her father. Last time it happened she got a black eye, and her father took off. But when he came back, mom took him in like always.
Do you have anywhere else to go?

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

Yeah, this is going to resonate with a few people.

There are a few things in what you said that push it over the line because, well I've been there.

The bruises. yeah, you bruised him back, but that gets into another problem. If this was a boyfriend would you put up with it? A stranger?

Your brother and mom trying to stop it. They know something is wrong even if they won't admit it to themselves.

The fact that it is base on his mood more than what you do. You shouldn't be living in constant fear. I rememer when it shifted from me being afraid to do something wrong to just being afraid when my stepdad would come home. When I realized that it wasn't my grades, or missing chores, or not listening or whatever that got me hit. I almost checked out right then.

What really scares me is you normalizing it. I know you are in a place that tells you it's ok. You have probably been through this all your life so that normalizes it. But these word scare me shitless.

i know i dont have it that bad. thats why i am still here. if it were really fucked up i am pretty sure i wouldnt be.

I said that when a friend was asking me about a bruise that ran up the entire length of my back. I assumed it was normal cause I had no benchmark. I knew kids who had it worse so I figured my situation must not be that bad. In the end it screwed me up in some ways I am still not over.

The gut thing to tell you is to get out. The thing is, I had someplace to go so it was easier. In addition to that I knew to many people who would leave an abusive home to end up in an abusive relationship. I don't have much advice for that. It's hard to give up what you belive is normal.

So my view on hitting children when they act up, I honestly don't know. But that's not really the situation you are in. You are an adult. You may not feel like it but your folks can kick you out, you can go to jail, you can be put in all manner of bad situations from this. Also, from the sound of it it has very little to do with when you act up.

I don't know if it's normal. At this point I wouldn't recognize normal with a roadmap and compass. I do know it's not right and I hope you can get to a place that's right.

Good luck.

[ForrestBlack]

my view on hitting children when they act up? sometimes, yeah, i think they deserve it, in instances such as what amelia said. out of anger? no. with a belt? no. being punched, slapped, twisting limbs? no. been there done that. got the fuck out.

you said you are from a small town, so i wouldn't recommend reporting it or anything... i WOULD say don't just talk about it. do something. where there's a will, there's a way. if you're 18, you're a big girl and you should be able to handle yourself. i was in the same situation (though not quite so bad, less than a year before i moved out my father and i got into our last violent disagreement... HE violently disagreed with ME) yet still i magically managed to get out of my town without first having a car or a job or anything...

Bingo! We have a winner! I so agree with you.

Yeah, I'd say get the hell out. Some of those 'lessons' you are being taught will hurt you in later life more than they will help you.

[LoraLie]

its been on my mind a lot lately. just leave or stay. i cant decide.
i wouldnt know where to go or anything if i did leave.

i'll probably be here at least until i finish high school.
but after that. i'm out. fuck this place.

[vulfgrl]

i'll probably be here at least until i finish high school.
but after that. i'm out. fuck this place.

I don't know how old you are, but do you have any relatives around or adults you can trust (I sound like an after school special)? Could you get emancipated?

If you can get a job and support yourself, or have help, here are some informational links:

http://www.uslegalforms.com/lawdiges.../LA-EM-001.htm

This isn't an easy way out, but if there isn't a way to stay out of the path of abuse, it may be the best.

[LoraLie]

oh i'm 18. i dont need to be emancipated. but thanks for the information

i havent left cause yeah, as i've said no job no place to go. nothing.
which if it were that bad i woudlnt care about that i'd just leave. but as i've said before its really not that bad

it used to be pretty rough but its toned down a lot since i was younger
(thinking of how it used to be is what caused the question)
just comes in spells now.
the real reason i want to leave is cause wow, this could turn into a really long story haha. the tale of my nut job protective jesus freak parents is a really long one.
but the hitting is not my main reason for me wanting to go.

thats why i say once i finish high school. i've been talking with a friend of mine about living together probably be somewhere in Texas (thats where he lives, he'd let me live with him sooner but he doesnt have a place of his own yet). & i know if things did start getting bad again he'd come & get me & let me stay but its not bad enough that i need to run away. i dont think it is.

[YoungSoulRebel]

I don't know how old you are, but do you have any relatives around or adults you can trust (I sound like an after school special)? Could you get emancipated?

If you can get a job and support yourself, or have help, here are some informational links:

http://www.uslegalforms.com/lawdiges.../LA-EM-001.htm

This isn't an easy way out, but if there isn't a way to stay out of the path of abuse, it may be the best.

When you're eighteen (as LoraLie says she is), emancipation is redundant. You can leave home and the local law-enforcement can't do anything about it unless your parents have had you declared incompetant (which I doubt would even be possible in this case, competancy hearings are simple procedures that many physically and mentally disabled people can pass). Depending on what state or county you live in, you can even run away at sixteen or seventeen and law enforcement can't do anything (which was what happened in my case); or if you have no juvey record, they just.. <i>won't</i> trot you back to the parentals (which definately worked in my favour).

Emancipation is something that happens with legal minors and in the U$, you're no longer a minor when you hit your eighteenth birthday.

[vulfgrl]

Emancipation is something that happens with legal minors and in the U$, you're no longer a minor when you hit your eighteenth birthday.

Yeah, I didn't know she was 18.

So I guess my advice is get a job. Easier said than done sometimes, I know.

Or you could find some old sugar daddy to change his will and then you can slip him some foxglove in his tea... Kidding!

[LoraLie]

Or you could find some old sugar daddy to change his will and then you can slip him some foxglove in his tea... Kidding!

haha shhhhh! thats my plan.

yep, but first i must learn to drive. being that the closest job is a 10 minute drive away.
& its not that great if i wanted a good one that would be a 20 or 30 minute drive.
yep.

[LoraLie]

honestly i plan on sticking around for as long as i have to & getting my revenge when i finallyd o move out.

living my life how i want & doing what i please = my revenge

[YoungSoulRebel]

oh i'm 18. i dont need to be emancipated. but thanks for the information

i havent left cause yeah, as i've said no job no place to go. nothing.
which if it were that bad i woudlnt care about that i'd just leave. but as i've said before its really not that bad

it used to be pretty rough but its toned down a lot since i was younger
(thinking of how it used to be is what caused the question)
just comes in spells now.
the real reason i want to leave is cause wow, this could turn into a really long story haha. the tale of my nut job protective jesus freak parents is a really long one.
but the hitting is not my main reason for me wanting to go.

thats why i say once i finish high school. i've been talking with a friend of mine about living together probably be somewhere in Texas (thats where he lives, he'd let me live with him sooner but he doesnt have a place of his own yet). & i know if things did start getting bad again he'd come & get me & let me stay but its not bad enough that i need to run away. i dont think it is.

OK, it's obvious that your mind is made up, desite the fact that a few people here seem to be reading this as an obvious cry for help. Maybe we misinterpreted, but whatever.

As I said, you're an adult and as such, can pretty much do anything you want with your own live, but with priviledge comes responsibility. I'm not saying it's your fault so much as I'm saying that you have options and while they may not look that great right now, not acting on those options can have consequences as severe as acting on them. In the end, it's your choice and even a judge would agree.

While the board is still out on whether or not even simple hand-spankings on the ass are acceptable negative reinforcement for certain misbehaviors of young children, everybody responding seems to be in full agreement that your situation, as well as any parent who takes hi/r anger out on their children of any age is totally fucked up &mdash; and not in that funky-cool-hardcore way that's typically extolled in "subcultured" 'zines.

Advice is obviously not what you want here, and i'm not going to tell you you'll be sorry, cos I obviously can't speak for you, but I can't think of a single person who got the fuck out of a situation similar to what you describe and regretted it. I mean, for crap's sake, I lived on the streets for a year-and-a-half and have a GED, but even THAT sure as hell beat getting beaten, thrown across the room and having chunks of my hair pulled out at the roots. You insist it's "not that bad" and maybe it isn't, but that doesn't matter to me. My advice still stands that getting the hell out beats living in fear that you're dad's going to get in a bad mood and have another temper-tantrum he takes out on you.

If you wouldn't put up with that shit from some random guy on the street, a teacher/boss, friend or boyfriend, it boggles my mind that so many teenagers (and yes, 18 is legally adult, but still technically a teenager) regularly put up with that shit from parents. It's not because they like it, but because they've been subtly conditioned into believing "it's not that bad". Seriously, there's always going to be somebody who has it or had it worse, but if the jerk is still "punishing you" like this past the age of eight, or just plain throwing a grown-up sized hissy fit and beating you in the process, it IS "that bad" because he is THAT messed up.

It's your life and essentially your choice, but I don't see how the choice you seem to have made is in any way beneficial to your life.

[LoraLie]

fair enough.
i suppose it wasnt really a cry for help. but maybe it was to an extent.
i did want advice. & i do appreciate what i've gotten. its made my fear of leaving not as bad as it was. well its made leaving more realistic to me.

& i will get out of here but for me its something that will take a little time. & more planning

(oh & yeah, i consider myself still a teenager. i dont have much wisdom & i havent really lived life at all. i'm honestly still quite a child)

[Mr Karl]

I was a stupid little bastard when I was a kid, and my dad was an old school german so I got beat real good with a stick,lilac, anyway he stopped that as soon as it got no reaction from me and the next time he just cuffed me around the house and I realized that he had been holding back all those years so I never pissed him off again, trust me, things I did were bad, and when I left the styx for the big city and ended up in the sorts of trouble a rotten kid like me ends up in I knew how to take care of myself

and morning glory , what the hell are you talking about? do you live in a bubble? To completely live up to your standards people would have to take a five year course before they're even allowed to decide wether they want to have children, and then more training trust me bad kids are bad kids and eventually they get beaten be it by thier parents or the cops or whoever(end of rant)

and Lorlie get a baseball bat, if you do it right he'll learn, well so will you cause it's really not nice to hit people but sometimes you just gotta

[YoungSoulRebel]

and morning glory , what the hell are you talking about? do you live in a bubble? To completely live up to your standards people would have to take a five year course before they're even allowed to decide wether they want to have children, and then more training trust me bad kids are bad kids and eventually they get beaten be it by thier parents or the cops or whoever(end of rant)

Some people should take a five year course before they're allowed to have kids. Not every slap is a spanking and not every kid who gets one did something to deserve it. My father once clocked me clear across the room for dating a Chreokee boy it's not 1820, fart-knocker!

Every kid does stupid shit, but that doesn't make them "bad".

My only crime as a legal minor was being "weird" in that man's eyes, being smarter than him (I qualified for The Triple Nine Society when I was seven, and he's not even a member of the 105 club), and just plain being nothing like him. None of it should have been justification for the fist-sized bruises and "knots" I recieved on a near-daily basis and the occasionally fractured extemities.

[TheDeathKnight]

Ah.... An interesting topic...

I see a lot of totally spoiled little brats. Screaming, crying, running the show.
The parents are totally slaves to these little princes and princesses.
A child misbehaving is not acceptable. A parent needs to be able
to have control over their children. That is the main focus. Kids should
not be allowed to do whatever the fuck they want. If you let them do
that, they will end up sick, spoiled little bastards...

So then the question comes: How do you control your kids?

The key is sticking to the punishment.

I use myself as an example, because I was very rarely hit as a child.
But I was very well-behaved for the most part.
How was this accomplished?
Let me give you an example:
If I was misbehaving, and my mom told me to stop, and I kept doing it,
she would tell me that if I did not stop, she would take my favorite toy,
and throw it in the garbage. She would give me one warning. But if I
kept doing it, she would indeed take my favorite toy, no matter how
expensive, and toss it in the trash. I would of course whine and
wail, and complain, and have a fit. I would apologize, and promise
never to do it again. I would beg. Plead. Cry. Etc... But would that
change her decision? No. That toy got taken to the city dump.

So I realized, that one time, that she meant business. What she
said, and the punishment she promised, would indeed take place.
So I did not disobey her for the most part. The one other time that
I ever disobeyed, I was threatened with being grounded for a week.
I knew she would attempt to carry out the punishment, but I thought
she would not be able to deal with it for a whole week of me being
a pain in the ass. But I was wrong. She kept me locked in the house
for that entire week. No early release for good behavior, etc...
So in the future, if she threatened me with being grounded,
I knew that if I disobeyed, I would really be grounded...

The key is realizing the parent means business, with whatever
punishment they come up with. And yes, hitting a kid works too.
But if you have a choice of how to punish a kid, I think it is better
to use other methods other than hitting them. Because as many
of you pointed out, kids eventually become immune to the pain,
and get used to being hit, and it is no longer an effective punishment.

But for those of you with abusive parents, you have to also realize
that parents do the best they can. Hitting a kid is the simplest,
easiest way, to enforce good behavior. The main question is if
it is just teaching good discipline, or if it is abusive. Parents are
not all geniuses, or experts in raising children. So they do the
best they can.

But in this case, as an adult, you have to decide what is acceptable
to you. Is physical fighting with your parent something you want
as part of your life? Is that what you want your parent/child
relationship to be like? I prefer to work out problems with
words. To me, as an adult, if I have an opinion, and my parent
has a different opinion, they should be able to discuss it with
me, without getting into a physical fight. A good example would
be that when I was an adult, and was going to school, and felt
I was independent, I wanted to have parties at my parent's
house, where I was living over the summers. My mom decided
she did not want me to do that. I felt that as an adult, I should
be able to do whatever the fuck I wanted. She agreed. But
she is also my landlord. As long as I was living in the house
that she owns, she gets to make the decisions, even though
I am over 18. If I wanted to get an apartment of my own,
and pay for it myself, and pay all my own bills, I can party
all I want. But if I was going to stay at her place for cheap,
I had to live by her rules, just like any other tennant.
But it never got to a physical fight. We strongly disagreed,
but the facts were what determined the winner of the fight.
Not who was stronger physically... That's what I think is
the most important. A parent should win a fight because
they are right, not because they are stronger than you are.

[Amelia G]

A parent should win a fight because
they are right, not because they are stronger than you are.

Yes!

It sounds to me like the issue here is not punishment, but just someone taking his mood out on others. There is no education coming with that belt; it's just abuse.

[vulfgrl]

When I was 9, I ran away (my mom had taken me into every room that wasn't clean and spanked me. There, bed not made, dishes not finished, toilet not clean...etc). I was gone for a few hours, riding my bike around. When someone saw me and called my parents, my mom picked me up and she was pissed. When I got home I found she had thrown away all my toys. Every single one. She said 'I didn't know if you were coming back'. When I asked her why she kept my clothing, she said 'I bought all of those and they're mine'.
I never ran away again, but I hated her for years. Funny thing, when she'd get mad, she'd leave for hours, and tell me she was running away. She'd just go shopping.

Sometimes parents suck

[TheDeathKnight]

You know those idiot kids at school?

The ones who are REALLY stupid, immature, and lame?

They have kids too.
And your parents are probably losers like they are.
Sometimes you just have to realize that your parents
are nothing more than immature kids themselves,
with no clue how to raise a kid properly...

Sometimes you just have to figure out for yourself
what is right, what is wrong, and what to do with your life...

Sometimes parents are best left behind as a bad memory.

This sounds a little like one of those cases.

[malcolm]

my dad used to beat the living shit out of me and my sis when i was a kid so im not a huge fan about the paddle and the whole touch your ankles and count to etc. crap. I think if someone does something they've been told not to do over and over again does it again, i could see maybe one or two pops on the butt but not when they've reached...oh say....past the third grade at the latest?

[YoungSoulRebel]

But for those of you with abusive parents, you have to also realize
that parents do the best they can. Hitting a kid is the simplest,
easiest way, to enforce good behavior. The main question is if
it is just teaching good discipline, or if it is abusive. Parents are
not all geniuses, or experts in raising children. So they do the
best they can.

Wow, if it were only that simplistic... You've obviously never even cracked the spine on an ancient issue of Psychology Today.

No, parents almost always beat their kids because they themselves were beaten repeatedly as kids. Thus they do it because they think they can get away with it and in most cases, they do. Hell, my father even held off on the abuse until he remarried to a woman who would let him do it -- when my mother was still around, he shew she'd break his hand if he raised it to her kids cos he was having the temper-tantrum.

And as you said, it's the chicken-shittiest easy way out of dealing with a kid being "bad". It's not "just doing the best [you] can" when it's essentially the coward's way out. But hey, anybody with half a brain doesn't need a Triple-9 ass-hole like myself to point out that you've contradicted yourself.

"...it's so easy...but it's the best they can do!"

Bullshit!

Yeah, tell that to a family psychologist worth her salt -- or any ER doctor or paramedic that's had to deal with kids beaten within an inch of little lives that the parent(s) "were just doing the best they could".

You're obviously speaking from the perspective of a person so SELF-ABSORBED that you can't even IMAGINE that kind of abuse. Guess what, skippy, it's not just on SVU, that's fucking REAL LIFE! I was never whipped and beaten as badly as some kids were, but I'm at least competant-enough as a human-fucking-being to have a functional degree of empathy to know CHILD ABUSE has NO FUCKING EXCUSE. None!

Somebody needs to resurrect my fucking father so that bastard can clean your clock something good.

[Mr Karl]

wow what an interesting thread, touched a lot of nerves all I can say is thank god my dad wasn't a bully or I would've been screwed

[Morning Glory]

Mr. Karl, the fact that your father hurt you in response to things that he felt were bad and that you justify it and say things like "a rotten kid like me" echoing his sentiment, raises strong cases for the connection between violence and coercion.

I don't know you, and I'm not going to try to guess at how your situation was or how you reacted to it. What I am going to do is point out a clinical phenomenon dealing with "kids acting out" and leave it up to you guys to take it however you want to.

The fact is that parents have a certain level of influence over their children that is special to that relationship. I'm not saying that it is necessarily wrong or abusive, although obviously it can be. Part of this is a parent enforcing their viewpoint on a child. Whenever a person exerts authority over someone it is in contradiction to that persons sense of self. You're wrong, and I'm right. The fact of the matter may be that you are right and a change of behaviour/mindset is entirely in the other persons best interest, but it doesn't change that perception. People react to this perception in different ways. Some people are really open minded and will say, 'yeah you're right, what was I thinking?' and some people might be utterly offended and refuse to listen to anything you have to say on principle.

What I'm getting at is that some people, especially children that don't have a lot of experience at dealing with things, are more prone to reacting in such an illogical way. When you tell them that they are wrong, they are going to continue to do that wrong thing. Not because they think that it's right, they may even be aware that it's not, but because they want to get back at you for undermining them.

This doesn't definitely mean that they are bad people or that they'll always do bad things or use poor judgment or a lack of rational. It just means that you have to have the maturity to recognize that you have to deal with them in a way that is more reassuring to their sense of self and less commanding.

As far as my five year training course ... yeah, I'd love to teach it. But with or without me, people have a class that they attend to where they learn about life and how to deal with people, it's called adolescence. It varies in course length. it's a parents job to teach it. Unfortunately, many parents never got an education in it themselves.

It's our role as members of a society to teach people the do's and don'ts of life to ensure that society continues to function. In the past everyone would contribute to this. Sadly, today more and more people are distancing themselves from the others around them and their interaction in a community, which is why we have so many screwed up social and personal relationships.

[Morning Glory]

also it's interesting that you point out cops beating people up. I understand that there is a need to keep people from doing fucked up things that hurt other people, and some people are going to do these things no matter what. but the majority of people can comprehend reality and don't simply act spontaniously of thought- that's the definition of insanity and those are the fuckers that we need to watch out for, but that's like less than 1% of the population. yes, people are still going to do fucked up shit, but it's because they have thought about it and rationalized that it's right. think of those little tykes that want to get back at everyone, only now they are all grown up.

And we got the dad that insist he's right and by god he's gonna show you his belt if you wise off. Only now he gets paid a lot of money and get's a lot of respect for it and he's got a shiny badge and people call him officer. If you punish people for doing something, then yeah it will work and it will make them stop doing it. They'll stop doing it because they don't want to get punished, and not because they think that it's right. A lot of time they won't care about the punishment and feeling that they are right, keep doing it anyway. If you want people to realize what they are doing is wrong, then convince them that you are right. My parents never hit me, they told me why they wanted me to do the things that they they thought were right. As a result, I usually listened because I had no good reason not to. If I had a good reason not to, i'd tell them why they were wrong, and they'd listen to me the same way.

yeah, well even so, I still turned out to be fucked up because they were determined to not be anything like thier own abusive asshole parents. they knew what not to do, but they didn't have any sense of the right things to do. the fact that they were even able to figure out the part that i just told you was the one svaing grace that enabled me to be introspective enough to figure out how to deal with life eventually.. but that's a whole'nother wale tale.