Alt Culture "In The Mainstream"

[Scar]

Alt Culture "In The Mainstream"

There is the STRANGEST trend among the so called "underground" scene out here on the West coast. There is an obsession among my fellow fetish and gothic
models and photographers to "break into the mainstream". I think in recent times I have become hypersensitive to it because I am so SICK of hearing about it. A lot of folks seem obsessed with bridging the gap between our culture and that of the masses. This is greatly confusing to me. I cannot figure out what the goal is. Do they want to break into the mainstream so that they can make more money being a freak, or do they want to conform so that they can fit in? It is hard to decipher what folks mean by "break into the mainstream".

Although I go out on the town less than I used to, I always get this fantastic feeling when I walk into a room of my fellow freaks and I look one way and see my pervy photographer pals, who have similar kinks to mine. I look the other way and see my S+M friends, who understand the urge I have to bend over and get flogged or have my body encased in saran wrap. I look around more and see friends from high school, who went through the struggle of depression, and some who were cutters like I used to be, and know that there is a strange bond between us that most folks would never understand.

When I have been forced to go to mainstream clubs, I don't have this feeling. People like to ask me stupid questions about "Marilyn Manson' and idiotic inquiries like "why are you dressed like that?" People assume I am "some Dominatrix chick" because I have 8 inch stilettos on. People are ass holes. For no other reason than they assume I am a "freak", and for some reason this offends them.

So why, oh why oh why oh why, would you want to merge those 2 cultures?

I was wondering if any of you guys, who are not local to Los Angeles, have this same strange trend in your communities? Or is it just something that I have to hear about all the time because I live in movie- land??? Please do tell!

[Amelia G]

I am seriously considering starting a new Hollywood trend of punching every person who tells me about how mainstream cross-over they are or wish to be. Or maybe throwing a drink in their face, depending on which feels more appropriate to the occasion. If I wanted to be mainstream, I would have lived my whole life differently and people striving for mainstream acceptance or "cred" make me feel like maybe it is not too late to make different life choices and I hate that.

[One Eyed Cat]

It is certainly not limited to Hollywood or the West Coast.

OEC

[ForrestBlack]

I always really do feel like looking them in the eye and asking in all sincerity, what the fuck are they doing here? Mostly because I always hear it in environments that are decidedly not in line with a mainstream way of life.

It's like somebody on the Football team constantly talking about how they really want to be on the Baseball team and they think the Baseball players get all the love and glory and money. At a certain point, you just have to be like STFU and leave.

I actually feel these attitudes are dramatically detrimental to a healthy freak culture and it would do us all a lot of good to be WAY less tolerant of them. All it does is break down people's pride in who they are and undermine their self confidence. It's just a rude world view.

[Mr Karl]

actually I'm not sure what goes on in my community, or why people care about fashion things, everyones got a right to spend thier money on what they want to, and when it comes down to it it is about the money....for 99% of the world's population anyway.

[Bikerpunk]

Scar was here and I missed it?

[Scott]

For some people, money is so important that it becomes the goal of their art, expression, and participation in the culture of their community.. They see breaking into the mainstream as the big lotto ticket to fame and fortune.

We live in a world where anything and everything must be repackaged and mass produced to be sold to the masses. And it is done so fast that it is a wonder there is any underground culture left.

[Velvet-Tongue]

From an outsiders view two things really pop to mind. The first is the ability to create more revenue, become famous etc. The second is so that they can dress like they want without getting all the dumb questions like you said Scar. With greater celebrity status comes more respect/freebies... well usually.

"Hey whos that weird, sexy piece of goth chick I'm gonna go ask her why shes dressed like a dominatrix at the Oive Garden wa..ooohhh its Scar the famous alternative model never mind lol." "Hiiiiii Scaaarrrrr would you enjoy some tasty breadsticks?".

Is a scenario that comes to mind .... /goes back to bed

[ForrestBlack]

I just feel like there used to be more of a support structure within the community, so when some bozo asked a dumb question, you and your peers could just laugh about it, but these days, you turn to others that should be in your camp and they are already pulling off their accessories to get the approval of the bozo that just insulted you.

[One Eyed Cat]

I just feel like there used to be more of a support structure within the community, so when some bozo asked a dumb question, you and your peers could just laugh about it, but these days, you turn to others that should be in your camp and they are already pulling off their accessories to get the approval of the bozo that just insulted you.

I would tend to agree. I have some general ideas for a co-operative effort with some friends. Beyond that, yeah it's getting rough out here. I don't have a definitive answer or explanation for it. My main thing is to attempt to be proactive. That will include some degree of exclusion based on the general principles of given individuals.

OEC

[Wickedanima]

I think there is this strange overdrive to be 'main stream'. It affects all areas, down to the mousy ones...

This was just recently an 'issue' for me regarding a project my Gentleman was getting into with some 'friends'. Talk within the first five minutes of meeting in the icy garage behind the house (that was the practice room) went right from "Lets get together and play, have a little fun", to "Not putting off our audience" and being able to pass "in the mainstream" in the first 30 minutes.

The 'mainstream' being the local freeking bar.

I could blame a million things. The substantiation of entertainment, American Idol, Make-Over shows that take lovely mousy girls and make them into acceptably passing women.

For one reason or another, there is this major loss of people who are willing just to fake it... they want to aim to be famous/successful/known/reality TV stars above just doing what they do and hoping someone can appreciate that.

I think its a growing lack of character. Or at least an ever accepting of people having a lack of character. They are less willing to stick to their principal, or doing what they love, and more willing to give it all up to reach these new ideas of success. That combined with an utter unwillingness to be creative...

It seems to be bleeding out everywhere.

[Mr Karl]

It seems to be bleeding out everywhere.

that's the beauty of it............

[incog]

I have a rant on this brewing for a later date.

[evilstonermonkey]

my views on the inherent lustto be acepted contrasting ith te need for self expression shoudl probably wai until im sober enough tontype proper. that would be a good idea. yess.

[evilstonermonkey]

so, in other words, what inog said. except, +excuse.

[One Eyed Cat]

I should have mentioned: I'm looking at this waaaaaay beyond photographers and models. I'll have to save my rant as well. I'm putting something new on the table. Then, the decapitation strikes begin when we start getting hated on. Specifics of models/photos I'll leave to the BB folks (given this is the only site I'll link to and post on) although my rant may tie in a bit on how some models' hubris gets in our way. Foto-ma-graphing ain't even our specific gig so it's doubly annoying.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

I think there is this strange overdrive to be 'main stream'. It affects all areas, down to the mousy ones...

This was just recently an 'issue' for me regarding a project my Gentleman was getting into with some 'friends'. Talk within the first five minutes of meeting in the icy garage behind the house (that was the practice room) went right from "Lets get together and play, have a little fun", to "Not putting off our audience" and being able to pass "in the mainstream" in the first 30 minutes.

The 'mainstream' being the local freeking bar.

I could blame a million things. The substantiation of entertainment, American Idol, Make-Over shows that take lovely mousy girls and make them into acceptably passing women.

For one reason or another, there is this major loss of people who are willing just to fake it... they want to aim to be famous/successful/known/reality TV stars above just doing what they do and hoping someone can appreciate that.

I think its a growing lack of character. Or at least an ever accepting of people having a lack of character. They are less willing to stick to their principal, or doing what they love, and more willing to give it all up to reach these new ideas of success. That combined with an utter unwillingness to be creative...

It seems to be bleeding out everywhere.

I guess what amazes me is what doesn't register with them: There ain't much coin in most of these gigs anyways! What the fuck do they want? Let's be *someone* on a local "scene"? Yeah, I piss myself in public a few times and get the same "acclaim". ugh.

OEC

[VoltaireBlue]

honestly scar, I don't really know..... I ran across someone's blog last night and they were talking about how they couldn't wait to move to L.A. and get an agent. between you and me, I was never impressed with this person, she always struck me as being the person at goth night that had all the right clothes and all the wrong outlook/attitude... I actually personally can't stand her. anyway when I read that she was doing that, I thoght to myself" what a sell out" and then I corrected myself thinking, "wait a minute, she was acting the whole time so she was never real anyway. who cares?" I think the whole alt thing will blow over eventually, and that would make me very happy. I'm tired of seeing studded belts on barbie girls.

[Morning Glory]

you mean to tell me that "alt" culture, is not really so alternative after all? *feigns shock*

Scar, you are a freak.

and that's why we love you.

PS. I totally had something important to say too, but the cool new thing to do is to not post it. All the kids in the LA clubs that are trying to post things of relevence these days.. posers. that's soo 2007.

[One Eyed Cat]

you mean to tell me that "alt" culture, is not really so alternative after all? *feigns shock*

Scar, you are a freak.

and that's why we love you.

PS. I totally had something important to say too, but the cool new thing to do is to not post it. All the kids in the LA clubs that are trying to post things of relevence these days.. posers. that's soo 2007.

The term alt is such an annoyance now. I say we just reclaim all the words we couldn't be fucked to define for the last 20 years. Make up our own meanings. Everyone makes their own meaning. The words come back without "" though. May as well. Part of the problem is allowing words to be defined by these jackals who pass through every time they see coin. Dunno if I'm making sense but I'm having fun ranting today.

[Ace]

I only left highschool 3 years ago, and as I was leaving I noticed something: the "alt" (and I use the term loosely) kids were now the "cool" kids. Suddenly studded belts and loud, angry music and Che tshirts (ugh) were everywhere.

It was the "preppies" that is to say, those of us in regular old jeans and tshirts that were "sheep". Whatever. Those "sheep" were the people who I spent most of my time with and were hardworking, bright, smart and original enough to know not to follow a trend, even if its an "alt" one.

Here's a "chicken or the egg" question for you all: Was it the alt crowd that pushed for more mainstream acceptance or the masses deciding it is cool?

[One Eyed Cat]

I only left highschool 3 years ago, and as I was leaving I noticed something: the "alt" (and I use the term loosely) kids were now the "cool" kids. Suddenly studded belts and loud, angry music and Che tshirts (ugh) were everywhere.

It was the "preppies" that is to say, those of us in regular old jeans and tshirts that were "sheep". Whatever. Those "sheep" were the people who I spent most of my time with and were hardworking, bright, smart and original enough to know not to follow a trend, even if its an "alt" one.

Here's a "chicken or the egg" question for you all: Was it the alt crowd that pushed for more mainstream acceptance or the masses deciding it is cool?

I don't think it'd be fair to make generalizations like that either way. Fuck em both for shitting in the den. I've met some really cool kids who can't be fucked with any of that nonsense.

[Ace]

I don't think it'd be fair to make generalizations like that either way. Fuck em both for shitting in the den. I've met some really cool kids who can't be fucked with any of that nonsense.

True say. I can't claim impartiality because I was co-president of the science club and far from liked by the cool kids, but beyond that, in the greater scope of things, the adage "you can't judge a book by its cover" applies.

[One Eyed Cat]

True say. I can't claim impartiality because I was co-president of the science club and far from liked by the cool kids, but beyond that, in the greater scope of things, the adage "you can't judge a book by its cover" applies.

I should probably have said "kids that get it". I'd generally prefer to speak to the Science Club President. Only point being: Some science-oriented kids may prefer a gothic aesthetic, be eccentric, or just plain crazy. I didn't mean "cool kids" in terms of a horde of jackasses stroking each other off. Fuck those "cool kids" as well.

OEC

[evilstonermonkey]

as it becomes more and more difficult for people to find their own identity and make themselves stand out, they see a culture that specifically is doing just that. not really understanding the point, they put on black clothes and studded accessories and start flocking around with all the other 'individuals' who have done the same.

they arent really doing anything that would actually count as the alt-cult, but they think they are and all the hysterical mothers think little jimmy is wearing mascara because he is worshipping santa or some other big creepy guy in red. alt culture isnt really becoming mainstream, but appearing to be alt IS mainstream.

lets all be cool. ill dye my hair black, listen to MCR and the world will love me again.

[Mr Karl]

so, uh, stupid question.......so this 'alt' culture, is it like the goths or the emo's or something like that, or is it the punks or the metalheads? or, is it this new 'heinz 57' stuff where everything just gets mashed together?

[Donald Rilea]

From my perspective, being "whatever" in the end is really more about attitude and beliefs than how one dresses or decorates one's body in other ways.

If any of you were to meet me in person, you'd see a man in his early 40's who generally wears long-sleeved dress shirts and slacks, with a sweater or sport coat on, depending on the weather.

I have a few, what I like to think of as "unique" t-shirts at home, with slogans like "Nevada: Growing And Glowing!!!" on them, plus the odd bit of East German surplus wear, as well.

But, most of the time, I look rather like a fairly shabby working-class guy.

Fine and dandy, and am putting no one else's styles down here in saying that.

I've found, in my years of living, that beauty, beneficence, and boorishness can be found across every cultural and sub-cultural boundary one could care to name.

As for me, well, to quote that Great American Philosopher, Popeye The Sailor Man, "I yam what I yam, an' that's all that I yam!!!".

I try to relate to those folks whose personal qualities I like, and avoid those whose I don't.

[evilstonermonkey]

so, uh, stupid question.......so this 'alt' culture, is it like the goths or the emo's or something like that, or is it the punks or the metalheads? or, is it this new 'heinz 57' stuff where everything just gets mashed together?

th 'alt' culture is everything that the pople who think genre is important cant figure out where to pidgeonhole. which is why i dont class myself as alt, but all the little emo "im different cos im wearing black" whiners do.

[Head Wreck]

just be who you are and dont let people get under your skin that way.

people are pack animals, they want to conform to a group at least, if anything to increase the chances of a mate and security, this is why we have a thing called sub-culture within the main culture, its for odd missits like you and i to go to to feel safe.

humans are not loners after all.


the way i see as "breaking into the mainstream" is $$$, and good luck to them, hopes it works out for them, its thier thing, and perhaps not mine. i'll stay here in my own prudish group watching from the edges giggling on an absinthe high and discussing sociology and psychology from the fringes with the rest of my pack

[OrganizedKhaos]

Theres an art in beauty, even if its the dark side (please excuse the generic label) and not all get it, just like the dark side doesnt "get" the vanilla.
We should be who we are.... and not exploit it and not force it just to be who we are, and let them be who they are.
Mainstream is fickle,and if a new culture is in the forefront..... they'll eat it up..... and nothing is nailed down. One second its hot, and the next, whoever partakes in the past tense fadis subjected to scrutiny. (example: Vanilla Ice)
While he was *hot* everyone was jammin' to it, but something suddenly changed.... and everyone was against him. He used an image, to propel himself, and it didnt reflect who he was. Not much good can come from whoring out an image.


Its important to just be ourselves, and they will be theirselves, no need to mix oil and water.

[OrganizedKhaos]

(if any of my posts tonight are .... worded weird, its because I'm a hair away from being drunk. AND I'm *country* and we have our own language and wording syntax that confuses others who talk more properly) regardless, I have an opinion to share,..... so therefore I'll share it.)

[Empress_Of_Drac]

mainstreams can sometimes be boring...good thing you guys exist...you made the world an interesting place to explore...